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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/28/2015 : 17:04:15
For those who have older sons, what are your thoughts on 54/80 versus 60/90 at 13U?
I get both sides of the argument.
54/80 proponents say it's great to have a 'bridge' year and you have the rest of your life to play 60/90. Another opinion is that 60/90 actually slows the game down and a faster game at 54/80 is better for development.
60/90 proponents argue that it helps them to play on the big field as early as possible. Also, I think several major players tend to be rising freshmen and that's a factor as well.
Your thoughts? |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| AllStar |
Posted - 04/30/2015 : 14:16:34
We did 54/80, but got into a couple (3 I think) of 60/90 tournaments at the end. Worked out fine. Everyone from our 13YO team made their HS team as Freshmen. Most played all 4 years, but a couple either didn't make their teams as Sophomores or moved on from baseball. I think that the field size decision we made had zero impact.
We had several small players (not my son, he's big) which helped my decision, but I never really considered 60/90 and told everyone that up front. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/30/2015 : 09:38:56
@Whit - In that case, I'll take 60/90 and the first base dugout from here on out. :-)
@CaCo - We have a fairly athletic team, comprised of all but two 7th graders, and are fine on either field but I honestly think the game in more challenging at 54/80. Based on what I've seen, the pitching is tougher to hit at 54/80 and I am all about challenging and stetching our kids and making them uncomfortable to see how they react. I get the point about offspeed pitches moving more but several of our kids have told me that offspeed is easier to recognize at 60/90.
Again, I don't really have a preference. Our goal is to play the most competition. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/30/2015 : 09:20:59
quote:
Originally posted by BaseKnock
By comparison, the 54/80 games we played moved faster but felt like a step back in the progression. In the end I don't think there is much impact to their long term careers as puberty, size, and strength will play a much larger role. However, at HS tryouts the boys with the May-Aug birthdays who played down a grade on the smaller field did not look as comfortable on the HS 60/90 field. I guess that feeds into the play your grade not age argument but that's an entirely different topic.
It's a different topic but very valuable to this conversation, as is bama21's post. I think this decision comes down to what type of ball player you have.
1. The kid likes playing baseball and hanging out with his friends and it's a fun time in his life and an activity to do to keep him in shape....I would leave this kid on the 54x80 field because it's the last time he will get to play with the power bats and the shorter fields where homeruns are likely.
2. The kid LOVES baseball, he looks more at home on a baseball field than on his living room couch. He has said he wants to play in high school and college and beyond and wants to be on the best teams to meet up with the best competition because he wants to play REAL baseball.....get this kid onto the 60x90 field, he wants it and you aren't doing him any favors holding him back.
To BaseKnocks point I think we will be seeing a lot of 13u eligible 8th graders trying out for 14u this year...if this is the final year that everyone has to transition might as well take the plunge with everyone else. |
| whits23 |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 20:55:04
hshuler...the big upside is if your in first base dugout and coaching 3rd base you have a longer run to get to your coaching spot.
burns an extra 12000 calories per weekend |
| BaseKnock |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 15:05:48
At 13U my son played on both fields. He was a catcher and his arm was nowhere ready for the 60/90 but the 60/90 games were more fun than the 54/80. I dreaded the 60/90 jump thinking him and others were not ready for it but soon leaned my fears were unfounded.
At 13U on a 60/90 no pitcher could get a fast ball by a hitter and the strikeouts went down considerably. Balls in play however went way up giving all positions more reps and really taught the boys about relays, cutoffs, communicating, and the infielders that they were responsible for more real estate, past the dirt and into the outfield. Bunting became more important as well. For catchers throwing out runners stealing second wasn't out of the question as the extra distance covered by the runners kept things equal. Runners learned to anticipate and look for curve balls and other off-speed pitches to steal on.
By comparison, the 54/80 games we played moved faster but felt like a step back in the progression. In the end I don't think there is much impact to their long term careers as puberty, size, and strength will play a much larger role. However, at HS tryouts the boys with the May-Aug birthdays who played down a grade on the smaller field did not look as comfortable on the HS 60/90 field. I guess that feeds into the play your grade not age argument but that's an entirely different topic. |
| bama21 |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 12:55:44
I say play both, this is their last year on the smaller fields and the last year of using those hot bats, let them enjoy it. I would start making the transition toward the end of season, maybe the last 2 or 3 tournaments.
The biggest difference from my perspective is, I believe the bigger fields and bat restrictions benefit the pitchers more so than the hitters. It will become obvious very quickly, who can hit and who cannot, no more half-swing homeruns and fly balls get caught. Also, the longer bases gives the infielders more time to throw you out.
With that said, the kids will have little trouble adjusting and usually do so fairly quickly. A lot of people say the game gets slower and to some degree boring, I would disagree completely. I love the bigger fields, love the grass infields, and love the wood bats. It's real baseball from here on out. |
| zwndad |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 12:43:38
One thing I have noticed in moving to the bigger 60/90 fields ... when the kids are just moving into it, there is a lot more open space on the field. Go watch a 13U or 14U team playing on a big field, and then compare it to a high school varsity team. It's amazing how much more room the younger guys have to find a hole.
On the argument FOR moving to 60/90, it really is all about learning to hit off-speed. That extra 6 feet gives a lot of room for the pitch to break, and learning to stay back is huge. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 10:22:53
Thanks for the responses...we are doing about half and half with two large year-end tourneys being 60/90 and one being 54/80. I just like hearing the thought process of others.
@Whit - I understand that your speed is your speed but what the pro-54/80 advocates say is that pitching is slower (not technically but batters have more time), runners are slower (not technically but they have longer distances to travel) and ground balls are slower (not technically but you fielders have more time)...so in essence the entire game is slower at 60/90. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 09:29:52
I don't have an older son, but from what I have heard the faster you get on the 60/90 field the better for development. I imagine there is a BIG learning curve on how to steal, where to hit, how to throw accurately across the larger diamond...etc Rather than having the kid transition from 50 to 54 then from 54 to 60 why not just give them an extra year on the 60/90, I don't get the point in transitioning twice in two years....unless you have a tiny team of late bloomers. |
| zwndad |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 09:27:05
I don't think field size is really a factor. You can argue both sides, but by the time you're 14, 15 or 16, it really won't have mattered. More important is putting your son on the right team to compete at whatever level you think is right for his development and to have fun.
By the time you get to high school, baseball becomes more of a job (not nearly as much as college, but much more than youth travel). High school is all about earning playing time and winning. Competing is fun, but not the same fun as the younger age groups. Then, with summer ball, baseball becomes such an individual sport all about recruiting. Again, it is and can be fun, but it's not the same.
In summary ... slow down and enjoy the ride ... and don't worry about field size and bat size. Those things will come in their own time. |
| gwin9 |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 01:25:16
Interesting topic, as I struggled with this choice the off season. We ultimately decided to play 14U; whether that was the best choice is still out for vote... We have played some 13U also this season, so we have a little perspective. He did play 54/80 in the fall, so we had a little transition period.
From a hitting perspective the curve balls at 14U seem to be better. When I say better, I mean the break is larger. He said "the curve balls now start behind my head". He did note at 13U that balls "gets on him quicker". When he does play 13U I do notice that it takes him a couple at bats to "catch up". At 14U I have seen very few kids that have the velocity to dominate. They rely more on location and mixing up pitches.
Pitching from 60' has taken some adjustment. My son has always had good velocity, but at 14U he has by no means been able to overwhelm kids with velocity. He has been very successful when he hits spots and has all his pitches working. When he goes back to 13U his velocity can take over and overwhelm kids. I describe pitching at 14U more like real pitching and not just blowing it buy you.
That's just what I have seen, I'm not sure what the best answer is...
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| whits23 |
Posted - 04/28/2015 : 22:43:52
i sort of like the transition year as kids are still going thru a growth year and some kids maybe almost a full year older than others.
Not sure how much more is put on growth plates throwing at 60 than 54 but i think for anything AA or less going 60/90 would be tough early in year as you would be jumping from 50/70 to 60/90.
Grad class is a factor for sure but i know hitting GOOD pitching at 54 makes high school seem easier as travel ball pitching at 54 is fast compared to random HS pitching at 60.
You could discuss how it affects catchers throwing down at different distances or learning double cuts, covering field space etc but your speed is your speed on any outfield. You wont get faster on a bigger field or a stronger arm as a result of it but it may show you why speed matters more and more each time you move up a distance as well as arm strength. There is a reason scouts carry stop watches..speed matters more and more every year |
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