| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| bkball |
Posted - 04/15/2015 : 08:10:39
Looking at some of the posts about the high school baseball season this year, pros and cons, I see some complaints about coaches, politics etc. and wonder if the trend to bypass high school will become more prevalent.
I noticed one of the best, if not the best, high school baseball coaches ever in the state of Georgia resigned this season. It had me wondering if parents are paying 1K and more for their kids to play JV and Varsity baseball, why wouldn't they just start the travel season early and start playing as a team in March. I won’t say all, but most of the better travel teams coaching is far superior to what you get at the high school level. Like someone said in another post a lot of these coaches are just math or shop teachers and have no baseball experience at all. Some are swayed to play the kids whose parents volunteer the most, or might be staff members of the school etc and it hurts the team’s chances of being the best it can be.
On the other hand I understand playing for your high school has a lot of pride associated with it, everyone is talking about it at school and it seems to be more of a team effort opposed to travel baseball which sometimes turns into a way of trying to separate yourself from other players.
Travel coaches can make a living off coaching baseball without the head aches of teaching classes and having to do lesson plans and attend PTA meetings and I believe high school coaches don’t make very much for coaching baseball for the time they put in.
I can think of a few really good high school coaches in Georgia that are left and I am afraid when those guys retire the state of high school baseball could change dramatically unless something is done.
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ifly1989 |
Posted - 04/29/2015 : 16:57:19
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
What seems to be forgotten here is that playing a sport is supposed to be FUN! When it stops being fun, it's time to stop playing. Yes it is hard work, sure you have to pay your dues, but in the end it should be an enjoyable experience.
The same posters here that say you shouldn't stop playing HS ball due to lack of playtime, are the same ones telling parents that if you kid isn't getting playtime on the travel team, it's time to look for a different team.
HS is when the game changes. Pre-HS, go ahead and change teams if you're not playing. Even HS travel ball, you want to be playing. But for HS ball, it is all about winning. College ball, it is all about winning. If you're not having fun, don't play. But, don't expect it to be all fun when you get to college. It is extremely competitive. It is hard. It is a job. That's why I say, you can't just LIKE to play baseball if you want to play in college. You have to LOVE baseball to play in college. HS is just a taste of what it will be like in college. Take the best player from every team in the state. Those are the guys you will be competing against on your own team for play time in college. Unless you LOVE baseball, being on the field and competing, hanging out with your teammates, the whole experience of being a part of a baseball TEAM, it won't be fun and you will want to quit.
The HS team is the beginning of the next level of baseball. It is the real deal. It is about winning at the highest level. It is about competing for a spot on the field. It is about dealing with the personality of the coach that you have. And no matter how hard it is, you want to stay on the team and keep playing because you love baseball.
Not sure how else to put it. It is the reality of baseball. Agree with me or not, doesn't matter to me. I'm just telling you how it is.
GREAT POST!!!
This post describes my son exactly...
He got cut in HS but worked HARD and through travel ball was recruited and signed at a DII college. He was a red shirt his first year and continued to work hard. He is now a role player and does not get much playing time but he still is the hardest working kid on the team.
I often ask him why he keeps going....what drives him...he said he simply loves the game!! |
| Critical Mass |
Posted - 04/26/2015 : 10:55:52
I know one , he was ran out of his last position because the parents didn't like the way he treated their kids. They were competing for state championships.....It was a private school where parents use the good book to "validate/shield" their action to segregate their children from the lurid and dangerous public school system and buy into a winning program. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 10:26:17
@bballman - I had several coaches who could have considered verbally abusive when I deserved it and I still have relationships with several of these men today. I didn't have a problem with it. |
| bballman |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 09:09:57
quote:
[i]Originally posted by aSouthPawI do wonder where the exceptions to the rule are. For example, what if you son is a top level pitcher and the HS baseball coach has a history of over-pitching? What if the coach verbally abuses players? Are these exceptions? Are there any others?
Player safety is the one exception. Parents, especially parents of high level pitchers, should have an understanding with the coach about pitch counts. Talk with the coach about your expectations. If the coach has a history of over throwing pitchers, keep a pitch count yourself and if he exceeds those expectations, have a talk with the coach. If the coach continues to ignore this or if he flat out refuses to worry about a pitch count, pull your son. This is the one thing a parent should talk to the coach about - really anything health and safety related.
Verbal "abuse" is another issue. Kids need to learn to deal with people that are jerks. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is a saying I grew up with and should be adhered to more these days. If you get to college, who knows what kind of coach you will get. Too many people are too sensitive and worried about being politically correct these days. Learn to deal with it, ignore it, tune it out, whatever - and just go out on the field and do your job. |
| aSouthPaw |
Posted - 04/24/2015 : 08:25:57
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
What seems to be forgotten here is that playing a sport is supposed to be FUN! When it stops being fun, it's time to stop playing. Yes it is hard work, sure you have to pay your dues, but in the end it should be an enjoyable experience.
The same posters here that say you shouldn't stop playing HS ball due to lack of playtime, are the same ones telling parents that if you kid isn't getting playtime on the travel team, it's time to look for a different team.
HS is when the game changes. Pre-HS, go ahead and change teams if you're not playing. Even HS travel ball, you want to be playing. But for HS ball, it is all about winning. College ball, it is all about winning. If you're not having fun, don't play. But, don't expect it to be all fun when you get to college. It is extremely competitive. It is hard. It is a job. That's why I say, you can't just LIKE to play baseball if you want to play in college. You have to LOVE baseball to play in college. HS is just a taste of what it will be like in college. Take the best player from every team in the state. Those are the guys you will be competing against on your own team for play time in college. Unless you LOVE baseball, being on the field and competing, hanging out with your teammates, the whole experience of being a part of a baseball TEAM, it won't be fun and you will want to quit.
The HS team is the beginning of the next level of baseball. It is the real deal. It is about winning at the highest level. It is about competing for a spot on the field. It is about dealing with the personality of the coach that you have. And no matter how hard it is, you want to stay on the team and keep playing because you love baseball.
Not sure how else to put it. It is the reality of baseball. Agree with me or not, doesn't matter to me. I'm just telling you how it is.
I think bballman has some really good advice here and dealing with life lessons. I do wonder where the exceptions to the rule are. For example, what if you son is a top level pitcher and the HS baseball coach has a history of over-pitching? What if the coach verbally abuses players? Are these exceptions? Are there any others? |
| Critical Mass |
Posted - 04/18/2015 : 09:03:39
Some coaches just suck, like mean people.
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| BaseballMom6 |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 19:19:17
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
What seems to be forgotten here is that playing a sport is supposed to be FUN! When it stops being fun, it's time to stop playing. Yes it is hard work, sure you have to pay your dues, but in the end it should be an enjoyable experience.
The same posters here that say you shouldn't stop playing HS ball due to lack of playtime, are the same ones telling parents that if you kid isn't getting playtime on the travel team, it's time to look for a different team.
HS is when the game changes. Pre-HS, go ahead and change teams if you're not playing. Even HS travel ball, you want to be playing. But for HS ball, it is all about winning. College ball, it is all about winning. If you're not having fun, don't play. But, don't expect it to be all fun when you get to college. It is extremely competitive. It is hard. It is a job. That's why I say, you can't just LIKE to play baseball if you want to play in college. You have to LOVE baseball to play in college. HS is just a taste of what it will be like in college. Take the best player from every team in the state. Those are the guys you will be competing against on your own team for play time in college. Unless you LOVE baseball, being on the field and competing, hanging out with your teammates, the whole experience of being a part of a baseball TEAM, it won't be fun and you will want to quit.
The HS team is the beginning of the next level of baseball. It is the real deal. It is about winning at the highest level. It is about competing for a spot on the field. It is about dealing with the personality of the coach that you have. And no matter how hard it is, you want to stay on the team and keep playing because you love baseball.
Not sure how else to put it. It is the reality of baseball. Agree with me or not, doesn't matter to me. I'm just telling you how it is.
Bballman - I don't disagree with you. You really have to Love the game and the work it requires to go forward. My son's coach tells them they need to fall in love with the process if you want to keep going forward. I expect my player to have to work harder and be stronger if he wants to earn a place on the team and then continue that practice if he wants to earn a spot on the field. However, I disagree that HS is like the real world.
Most kids do not get to pick their HS, therefore they do not get to choose a program with which they are compatible. The do choose their College. A HS coach is a teacher first and a coach second, and like others mentioned, a couple losing seasons does not cost them their job. A college Coach is expected to win, and will likely lose their job if they don't produce the expected outcome.
I agree that HS Varsity should be all about the win. However, JV ball should be about developing your younger talent so they can become producers on Varsity as they go through the program. Otherwise, how do you build a winning Varsity program? |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 16:23:11
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Contradictory is a stretch, but I suppose it's all in how you choose to interpret. My point is that parents aren't getting coaches ousted (unless they're being abusive or plain negligent). My later comment about getting players to the next level basically means that it's a feather in their cap and all HS coaches like to have that as some parents do shuffle in and out of districts just to play for certain programs. I don't see any coaches changing how they coach or approach parents or players to do this, but they do love to have a list of guys at the next level that they "take credit" for making happen. Some of these guys take great pride in their craft and work very hard to get their players at the next level, others not so much. I can tell you with great certainty that all of them have parents who will tell you that they're morons and other parents that are quite pleased with the same coach.
And I stand by my point about the relationships going back. The point is that coaches know one another and their reputations. As I stated a college coach doesn't care if a HS coach has a great rep with parents and players, but DOES care if he can believe that a coach is giving a fair and honest assessment of players that a school may pursue.
My point certainly wasn't "that coaches who are not good at being a baseball coach have poor connections to college recruiters", but rather that the criteria that PARENTS use to judge a baseball coach as being good or not is NOT the same criteria that the next level uses when seeking the input of these HS coaches when considering prospects playing for them. Hopefully that's more clear.
As for parents judging how good/bad a baseball coach is at what he does...well I have met very few parents who sole criteria wouldn't be "how much did my kid play", so generally speaking I would think less than 10% of parents could honestly judge how well a coach is doing at being a coach, but there are the exceptions.
I am very spoiled in the location where I live that there are several very strong High School teams and very knowledgeable coaches. I've heard stories of coaches from the past, one in particular, that couldn't run a proper program, didn't have connections, and in short wasted a talented team and he lost his job due to parental pressure on the admin, that is where I got that tidbit of info. The high schools around me have multiple academy personnel manning the coaching staff, so I will admit I may not have an accurate view of the rest of the state, but near me the coaching staff seems to have a clue. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 14:59:29
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
The post I was responding to put forth the premise that there was a High School coach who "knows very little about baseball is teaching the players the wrong things on the field" and would I let my kid play for them.
You contradicted yourself so much here I just don't even know how to respond...parents aren't getting coaches ousted, but coaches make it a priority to show parents they can get their kid to the next level.
You said most college recruiters and HS coaches have preexisting relationships that go back years that is based on being honest about a kids skill, talent and attitude, but if a coach gets a reputation for overly inflating talent and a trend develops of his kids washing out at the next level, which would be what happened if we relate back to the post I was addressing about the coach teaching the totally wrong things, how good would that relationship actually be between recruiter and HS coach?
So, I guess you are making my point for me that coaches who are not good at being a baseball coach have poor connections to college recruiters?
Contradictory is a stretch, but I suppose it's all in how you choose to interpret. My point is that parents aren't getting coaches ousted (unless they're being abusive or plain negligent). My later comment about getting players to the next level basically means that it's a feather in their cap and all HS coaches like to have that as some parents do shuffle in and out of districts just to play for certain programs. I don't see any coaches changing how they coach or approach parents or players to do this, but they do love to have a list of guys at the next level that they "take credit" for making happen. Some of these guys take great pride in their craft and work very hard to get their players at the next level, others not so much. I can tell you with great certainty that all of them have parents who will tell you that they're morons and other parents that are quite pleased with the same coach.
And I stand by my point about the relationships going back. The point is that coaches know one another and their reputations. As I stated a college coach doesn't care if a HS coach has a great rep with parents and players, but DOES care if he can believe that a coach is giving a fair and honest assessment of players that a school may pursue.
My point certainly wasn't "that coaches who are not good at being a baseball coach have poor connections to college recruiters", but rather that the criteria that PARENTS use to judge a baseball coach as being good or not is NOT the same criteria that the next level uses when seeking the input of these HS coaches when considering prospects playing for them. Hopefully that's more clear. |
| 743 |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 14:43:29
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
And let's say frogs had wings.....in this baseball hotbed the chances of a high school coach being a complete moron are slim to none because the jobs are coveted. Also, if the coach was as described I don't think College Scouts would be talking to the guy about his opinion on a player, and therefor parents would have had the coach ousted years ago.
From your previous posts, I know you're not at the HS level with your son yet, but let me assure you, there are complete morons in every region coaching HS teams. For many reasons, behavior, inconsistent, lack of knowledge, inability to relate to generation, etc., etc. Don't think for a moment that these jobs are up for grabs every year and that AD's are scrutinizing this on a yearly basis. Parents aren't getting a whole lot of coaches "ousted" around here as you may seem to think is occurring. Listen to Bballman. He knows what he's talking about. The college coaches receive the same criticism as HS coaches. Clearly their employment is based on results, so their job is more akin to what you describe, but it's not parent's complaining doing a college coach in and he, more than anyone, realizes that over half of what is expressed is based on disgruntled players and parents over time on the field.
And as far as college scouts continuing to talk with these guys, here's another bit of info. The college recruiters don't give diddly about whether a HS coach is adored by his players and parents. Many of these guys have a long relationship going back to playing together, against one another, coaching regional/USA teams together, etc. They know and trust one another.
The one thing that will turn a college recruiter off on a HS coach is a lack of honesty about players skill and character. If a coach gets a reputation for overly inflating talent and a trend develops of his kids washing out at the next level, the HS coach will lose credibility with coaches and recruiters at the next level. Likewise if they cover up character and attitude flaws about players. The college level needs to be able to trust what they're hearing from HS coaches with regard to talent and attitude. Likewise HS coaches want to be able to show parents that they have these connections and relationships to help get their son to the next level. Most aren't willing to jeopardize these relationships and reputations they've built.
So please don't kid yourself that HS coaches who make complete arses of themselves and are deemed clueless by the booster club have one foot out the door. We see at minimum 3 or 4 a season, every season, often the same guys, who act or are complete tools who have no fear of their coaching position being taken.
Please chime back in after a few years of your son playing at HS and let me know if its changed.
Great Post in_the_know I agree with what you said here, also Baseballmom6.
Now CoCa I think you have a great deal to learn about baseball in the next 4 or 5 years you will see.
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| bballman |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 14:40:51
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
What seems to be forgotten here is that playing a sport is supposed to be FUN! When it stops being fun, it's time to stop playing. Yes it is hard work, sure you have to pay your dues, but in the end it should be an enjoyable experience.
The same posters here that say you shouldn't stop playing HS ball due to lack of playtime, are the same ones telling parents that if you kid isn't getting playtime on the travel team, it's time to look for a different team.
HS is when the game changes. Pre-HS, go ahead and change teams if you're not playing. Even HS travel ball, you want to be playing. But for HS ball, it is all about winning. College ball, it is all about winning. If you're not having fun, don't play. But, don't expect it to be all fun when you get to college. It is extremely competitive. It is hard. It is a job. That's why I say, you can't just LIKE to play baseball if you want to play in college. You have to LOVE baseball to play in college. HS is just a taste of what it will be like in college. Take the best player from every team in the state. Those are the guys you will be competing against on your own team for play time in college. Unless you LOVE baseball, being on the field and competing, hanging out with your teammates, the whole experience of being a part of a baseball TEAM, it won't be fun and you will want to quit.
The HS team is the beginning of the next level of baseball. It is the real deal. It is about winning at the highest level. It is about competing for a spot on the field. It is about dealing with the personality of the coach that you have. And no matter how hard it is, you want to stay on the team and keep playing because you love baseball.
Not sure how else to put it. It is the reality of baseball. Agree with me or not, doesn't matter to me. I'm just telling you how it is. |
| hshuler |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 14:22:08
Very well said, ITK.
I know a parent who was furious with a travelball coach for telling a few college coaches that a certain kid should probably go the JuCo route. He didn't say the kid couldn't play...he said the kid needed to get tons of outfield reps because he wouldn't play middle infield at the next level. It all boiled down to this give giving an HONEST assessment...and that's why scouts (college and pro) love and respect him. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 13:43:30
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
And let's say frogs had wings.....in this baseball hotbed the chances of a high school coach being a complete moron are slim to none because the jobs are coveted. Also, if the coach was as described I don't think College Scouts would be talking to the guy about his opinion on a player, and therefor parents would have had the coach ousted years ago.
From your previous posts, I know you're not at the HS level with your son yet, but let me assure you, there are complete morons in every region coaching HS teams. For many reasons, behavior, inconsistent, lack of knowledge, inability to relate to generation, etc., etc. Don't think for a moment that these jobs are up for grabs every year and that AD's are scrutinizing this on a yearly basis. Parents aren't getting a whole lot of coaches "ousted" around here as you may seem to think is occurring. Listen to Bballman. He knows what he's talking about. The college coaches receive the same criticism as HS coaches. Clearly their employment is based on results, so their job is more akin to what you describe, but it's not parent's complaining doing a college coach in and he, more than anyone, realizes that over half of what is expressed is based on disgruntled players and parents over time on the field.
And as far as college scouts continuing to talk with these guys, here's another bit of info. The college recruiters don't give diddly about whether a HS coach is adored by his players and parents. Many of these guys have a long relationship going back to playing together, against one another, coaching regional/USA teams together, etc. They know and trust one another.
The one thing that will turn a college recruiter off on a HS coach is a lack of honesty about players skill and character. If a coach gets a reputation for overly inflating talent and a trend develops of his kids washing out at the next level, the HS coach will lose credibility with coaches and recruiters at the next level. Likewise if they cover up character and attitude flaws about players. The college level needs to be able to trust what they're hearing from HS coaches with regard to talent and attitude. Likewise HS coaches want to be able to show parents that they have these connections and relationships to help get their son to the next level. Most aren't willing to jeopardize these relationships and reputations they've built.
So please don't kid yourself that HS coaches who make complete arses of themselves and are deemed clueless by the booster club have one foot out the door. We see at minimum 3 or 4 a season, every season, often the same guys, who act or are complete tools who have no fear of their coaching position being taken.
Please chime back in after a few years of your son playing at HS and let me know if its changed.
The post I was responding to put forth the premise that there was a High School coach who "knows very little about baseball is teaching the players the wrong things on the field" and would I let my kid play for them.
You contradicted yourself so much here I just don't even know how to respond...parents aren't getting coaches ousted, but coaches make it a priority to show parents they can get their kid to the next level.
You said most college recruiters and HS coaches have preexisting relationships that go back years that is based on being honest about a kids skill, talent and attitude, but if a coach gets a reputation for overly inflating talent and a trend develops of his kids washing out at the next level, which would be what happened if we relate back to the post I was addressing about the coach teaching the totally wrong things, how good would that relationship actually be between recruiter and HS coach?
So, I guess you are making my point for me that coaches who are not good at being a baseball coach have poor connections to college recruiters?
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| BaseballMom6 |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 13:00:27
It is obvious to me that many of you are of the "what doesn't kill 'em makes 'em stronger" mindset. If the coach is a total jerk, deal with it, that's life. Don't get playtime no matter how hard you work, too bad. I see a lot of grand generalizations about coaches, high school programs, what recruiters look for...but there are way too many schools both HS and College that most of us do not experience to truly know all that goes on.
What seems to be forgotten here is that playing a sport is supposed to be FUN! When it stops being fun, it's time to stop playing. Yes it is hard work, sure you have to pay your dues, but in the end it should be an enjoyable experience.
The same posters here that say you shouldn't stop playing HS ball due to lack of playtime, are the same ones telling parents that if you kid isn't getting playtime on the travel team, it's time to look for a different team. If the team carries too large a squad, someone is just trying to make more money. Why is it OK for the HS's to behave this way? 20+ JV players and $1000+/player, and only half of which get decent playing time and only a 16 game season. Just because you get to wear your school's colors, does not support that practice.
I played HS and College varsity sports, I get what goes on, however, many of the justifications I read just don't add up. Unfortunately not every coach is out there with the best interest of the player and team at heart. We live in a highly competitive area, the coach had a plethora of talent to choose from, and yet the team is not having a successful season. It gives me reason to wonder about the quality of the coaching. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 12:19:02
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
And let's say frogs had wings.....in this baseball hotbed the chances of a high school coach being a complete moron are slim to none because the jobs are coveted. Also, if the coach was as described I don't think College Scouts would be talking to the guy about his opinion on a player, and therefor parents would have had the coach ousted years ago.
From your previous posts, I know you're not at the HS level with your son yet, but let me assure you, there are complete morons in every region coaching HS teams. For many reasons, behavior, inconsistent, lack of knowledge, inability to relate to generation, etc., etc. Don't think for a moment that these jobs are up for grabs every year and that AD's are scrutinizing this on a yearly basis. Parents aren't getting a whole lot of coaches "ousted" around here as you may seem to think is occurring. Listen to Bballman. He knows what he's talking about. The college coaches receive the same criticism as HS coaches. Clearly their employment is based on results, so their job is more akin to what you describe, but it's not parent's complaining doing a college coach in and he, more than anyone, realizes that over half of what is expressed is based on disgruntled players and parents over time on the field.
And as far as college scouts continuing to talk with these guys, here's another bit of info. The college recruiters don't give diddly about whether a HS coach is adored by his players and parents. Many of these guys have a long relationship going back to playing together, against one another, coaching regional/USA teams together, etc. They know and trust one another.
The one thing that will turn a college recruiter off on a HS coach is a lack of honesty about players skill and character. If a coach gets a reputation for overly inflating talent and a trend develops of his kids washing out at the next level, the HS coach will lose credibility with coaches and recruiters at the next level. Likewise if they cover up character and attitude flaws about players. The college level needs to be able to trust what they're hearing from HS coaches with regard to talent and attitude. Likewise HS coaches want to be able to show parents that they have these connections and relationships to help get their son to the next level. Most aren't willing to jeopardize these relationships and reputations they've built.
So please don't kid yourself that HS coaches who make complete arses of themselves and are deemed clueless by the booster club have one foot out the door. We see at minimum 3 or 4 a season, every season, often the same guys, who act or are complete tools who have no fear of their coaching position being taken.
Please chime back in after a few years of your son playing at HS and let me know if its changed. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 10:45:12
quote:
Originally posted by 743
quote:
[i]
I would think one of the quickest ways to weed out character flaws would be to ask about the high school team and hear something from the players mouth about "I won't play for him", or "my high school team really isn't good so I don't play there"..or "well they wanted to put me on JV so I quit"...well that would help weed out the kids pretty fast. I don't think players are being asked what high school they play for to see what the reputation of the program is, I think they want to hear the kids response.
Let me play devils advocate for a minute, lets say your boys high school coach is a complete ass, knows very little about baseball is teaching the players the wrong things on the field. Would you still have your son play for that coach? 
And let's say frogs had wings.....in this baseball hotbed the chances of a high school coach being a complete moron are slim to none because the jobs are coveted. Also, if the coach was as described I don't think College Scouts would be talking to the guy about his opinion on a player, and therefor parents would have had the coach ousted years ago.
But, for arguments sake, let's say he was teaching the wrong things on the field...I think my son would look at it like "been there done that"...I think most high level baseball kids at some point in time were with a coach, maybe a rec ball coach, that had them scratching their heads and thinking WOW this guy is way off!, BUT he still played his best for him, and did his best to accommodate the coaches wishes, even the weird ones, as long as he didn't feel it put him in danger. If the coach thinks the SS should do two complete circles around the base runner, clapping like a lunatic, prior to the pitch being thrown then that is just what the players have to do. (true story there)
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| bballman |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 10:15:01
quote:
Originally posted by 743
quote:
[i]
I would think one of the quickest ways to weed out character flaws would be to ask about the high school team and hear something from the players mouth about "I won't play for him", or "my high school team really isn't good so I don't play there"..or "well they wanted to put me on JV so I quit"...well that would help weed out the kids pretty fast. I don't think players are being asked what high school they play for to see what the reputation of the program is, I think they want to hear the kids response.
Let me play devils advocate for a minute, lets say your boys high school coach is a complete ass, knows very little about baseball is teaching the players the wrong things on the field. Would you still have your son play for that coach?
I know most of you haven't been through this. But we have and know A LOT of kids that are playing in college. When a coach recruits a player, he has on his recruiting face. Once you get on the team, it may be a completely different face he puts on. What are you going to do then? The rules for changing schools within the NCAA are very complicated. There are many kids that have changed schools thinking the grass is greener, only to find out that it is not so green once you get there. If you are lucky enough to get recruited by a college, you kind of get what you get. You can do all the due diligence and ask all the questions, but your actual experience could very well not meet up with what you were expecting. If you ran away from that in HS, how will you deal with it in college? Run again? Change teams every year until you find one that is completely comfortable? Just not that easy to do.
So, I guess I'm saying is yes. It is your HS. Play for the coach. If you have a HS coach that is a total jerk and you think he doesn't know what he is talking about or whatever, part of life lessons are learning how to deal with and overcome adversity. Help your kid deal with the coach and his attitude. Help him have a team comes first attitude and do whatever he can to be a positive influence.
When my son was in HS, he had a coach that wasn't really a jerk, but really wasn't a knowledgeable, seasoned coach. The kids on the team all knew he really didn't know what he was doing. He played anyway - because it was his high school's team. It never even entered his head that he didn't want to play for his HS. If I would have asked him if he wanted to leave to play for a better coach, he would have thought I was crazy!!
Sorry guys. I don't think anyone will be able to give me enough reasons to not play for the HS team. Are there extreme cases? Yes, but for the vast majority of cases, play for your HS team and learn how to overcome the adversity and deal with a coach that you don't think is the best coach or makes the best decisions.
And once again it is about perception. A recruiter will see a player's tools. If that recruiter sees the tools a player has, he will not care if you got cut from your HS team or that you are not playing for the HS team (unless you are not playing because of disciplinary reasons or an attitude problem - and recruiters will ask about that). Those decisions are out of the player's hands. Whether he stays on the team or decides to quit the team is totally in the players hands and the player may well be judged on that. Now, if your kid throws 95, it's probably something you don't need to worry about. If you are an average kid throwing 84-88, every little bit helps. Don't make the wrong impression. |
| knapper1 |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 09:50:08
We wouldn't switch High Schools. He has many friends there. My post was not to bash our High School baseball team it was to show that you can still play competitive ball even if your High School team doesn't want you. Next year we will see what he wants to do but I told him I'm only paying for two things, so it's two sports or it's two baseball seasons, High School and summer. Doubt he'll drop the other sport.
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| bama21 |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 09:13:11
Should you play for your high school? Obviously, the answer is yes, if at all possible. With that said, is it absolutely necessary, I would say the answer is no. Travel baseball gives a kid unparalleled exposure and if your good enough, then I don't think a scout will care if you played for your high school team. However, you also should not quit because things are tough and maybe not too your liking. I would also not recommend staying if you are not benefiting in some way. If I were a scout, I equally would be concerned if your on the high school team but not playing. Why aren't you playing? That too, may be hard to answer.
Also, not every coach is a good coach and not every coach is going to have your kids best interest at heart. What one coach does not see in you, another may. So, switching high schools may be for the best, it that's an option. If it is not an option, then the kid is stuck in a bad situation and probably has little to no control over the outcomes. We would all like to believe that if a kid is good enough he would play, but that may or may not be the case. That remains in the coaches hands and I KNOW WE ALWAYS AGREE WITH THEIR DECISIONS, DON'T WE????
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| knapper1 |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 08:57:20
I don't post very often on this forum but do read it every now and then. It's been helpful and we have gained information over the years..
We play in the North Fulton District and my son made his JV team as a freshman last year. After last year’s High School season we were thinking about playing summer ball but skipped it so he could focus on his fall sport. We missed most of the fall High School baseball workouts because of his High School fall sport. My son did not make the High School team this year. We were surprised for sure.
Was that because he wasn't good enough?? I guess the High School coaches thought that way. Were they not happy he wasn't at fall workouts or that he didn't play summer ball?? They will never say that but you never know the thinking or what politics are going on behind the scenes.
I do know of another top player who didn't make their team on another school. He throws in the low to mid 80’s and is on a top tier travel team. I don’t believe it was grade related but maybe it was his attitude or something that I’m not aware of.
We as a family talked about it and I kind of told him it's his decision to continue or not and also told him don't make this decision just because this High School didn't want you. I told him to try out for a summer team and see how that goes. My son tried out for several Travel Teams and everyone we tried out for wanted him and couldn't believe he’s not playing High School ball and these are some top Travel teams.
Sports in a costly endeavor for sure. I told my son it’s his decision if he wants to try out for his High School team next year or just play summer ball. I don’t plan on paying for both because the cost has gotten out of control. Plus we have the cost of his other sport. My son will continue to play two sports because that’s what he likes.
Kind of rambled there but that’s our High School story..
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| mar1dxt |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 08:49:28
I guess my perception is different from being exposed to high school teams primarily in the North Fulton and East Cobb areas. The teams in general are well coach with coaching staffs that have a high level of playing and coaching experience. The level of play is high and the many of the players play summer ball on the travel teams referenced in this thread |
| 743 |
Posted - 04/17/2015 : 07:47:21
quote:
[i]
I would think one of the quickest ways to weed out character flaws would be to ask about the high school team and hear something from the players mouth about "I won't play for him", or "my high school team really isn't good so I don't play there"..or "well they wanted to put me on JV so I quit"...well that would help weed out the kids pretty fast. I don't think players are being asked what high school they play for to see what the reputation of the program is, I think they want to hear the kids response.
Let me play devils advocate for a minute, lets say your boys high school coach is a complete ass, knows very little about baseball is teaching the players the wrong things on the field. Would you still have your son play for that coach? |
| bballman |
Posted - 04/16/2015 : 16:47:58
Let me make a point as to how this COULD be relevant. On a college team, you have a roster of 35 players (that's for D1. D2, D3, NAIA & JUCO could have a lot more). Of those 35 players, usually around 16 are pitchers. That leaves 19 position players. Once a starting 8 are determined, it is VERY tough to break into that 8. That leaves 11 position players as role players getting very little field time or ABs. Of the 16 pitchers, you may have 4 starters and say 5 relievers that are used more than the others. That leaves 7 pitchers who may see very few innings. That is a total of 18 kids on a college roster who will see limited play time. Are these guys needed by the coach? Yes they are!! If you do not play HS ball because you feel like you didn't get a fair shake - for what ever reason - what does that say about what your attitude might be when you get on the college team? Does a college coach want a kid that is going to quit or have a horrible, entitled attitude on his team if he doesn't earn one of the 8 starting positions or 9 highly used pitching spots? No, he isn't. He is going to want a kid that has a good attitude. He is going to want a kid that is willing to work harder to earn a starting spot if he doesn't earn it from the beginning. He is going to want a kid willing to get better while the seniors finish out their college career and be happy about being a starter their junior or senior year.
See, it's about perception. Every player on a college team is a VERY good player. Not every kid is going to be a starter. A coach wants kids who can work through that and contribute when the team needs them. He doesn't want a kid that is all about ME and if I don't get what I want, I'll take my ball and go home. Or sit on the bench and complain all the time and create a negative chemistry on the team. That's just the way it is.
My son's team had a pretty good player on his team last year. He was a solid reliever by the end of the year and was used pretty frequently. However, he wanted to be a 2 way guy and that just wasn't going to happen. He was the only kid on the team that got cut. When I asked my son about it, I asked why would XX get cut? He had a good year. His response was, "He was a bad teammate". He was always saying he could do better than the guys in the field.
That's why the reason you are not playing for your HS team matters, in my opinion. If you got cut because other kids were better or there was a backlog of kids in your position, that is not your fault. If a college coach sees you have tools, but still got cut from your HS team, that's not your fault and will probably be OK. If you quit your team because you didn't like the coach or you weren't getting play time, in my opinion, that is a red flag. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/16/2015 : 15:35:45
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
[quote]
I also said if a kid expects to be recruited he better have a darn good answer for why he didn't play on his High School team...your kids answer will be "Well coach didn't evaluate me because I was playing basketball and he tried to send me to JV which I found totally unacceptable so I quit, I won't play for a coach who treats me like that"...can you imagine how well that conversation is going to go over?
this isn't the 80's. College colleges don't care about high school baseball like they used too, the first question they ask you is who do you play summer baseball with, and your GPA. I have heard it time and time again.
CaCo has your son been played hs baseball yet? have you watched a JV game? Most good Major 14U teams would run most JV teams off the field.
I know of more than a handful of kids who have been asked about their ACT scores, Travel teams and high school teams...you have to admit there is a large pool of guys wanting to play college baseball. I would think one of the quickest ways to weed out character flaws would be to ask about the high school team and hear something from the players mouth about "I won't play for him", or "my high school team really isn't good so I don't play there"..or "well they wanted to put me on JV so I quit"...well that would help weed out the kids pretty fast. I don't think players are being asked what high school they play for to see what the reputation of the program is, I think they want to hear the kids response.
I would agree 100% that in a match up between 14u Major and the average JV team the 14u team wins hands down...but that is one of the many challenges of high school ball. High School ball is where the kid who got zero love from ECB/643/Titans/Dogs/Elite...etc...can be a total stud with his 75 mph fastball, or pop time of 2.5...High School Ball is where you don't have to be elite/major to play. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 04/16/2015 : 14:15:55
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
[quote]
I also said if a kid expects to be recruited he better have a darn good answer for why he didn't play on his High School team...your kids answer will be "Well coach didn't evaluate me because I was playing basketball and he tried to send me to JV which I found totally unacceptable so I quit, I won't play for a coach who treats me like that"...can you imagine how well that conversation is going to go over?
this isn't the 80's. College colleges don't care about high school baseball like they used too, the first question they ask you is who do you play summer baseball with, and your GPA. I have heard it time and time again.
CaCo has your son been played hs baseball yet? have you watched a JV game? Most good Major 14U teams would run most JV teams off the field. |
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