| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Baseball Junkie |
Posted - 07/27/2008 : 20:48:23
Just wondering what the board thinks. Was recently having a conversation about the ECB program. The person I was speaking with says that the success of the program is because of the players on the older teams and not the coaching. He stated that the younger players that usually start at ECB don't perform at a top 10 level but the older players that are recruited from other programs and don't come up in the ECB program are usually the more competitive players.He stated that there are usually very few players, if any, that started in the program at an earlier age are on the older teams. What's your opinion? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 08/03/2008 : 00:00:34
For example, The 16U EC A's. I believe most of thse kids are from Cherokee Co. They could be playing with a team in that area but I firmly believe they are getting a better coaching experience playing on the A's, and are putting themselves in a better situation to make the HS team.
From the few that I know from Cherokee HS that are on that team...there already on the HS team...
By the way unless you're talking rec ball...I don't know any travel teams 16U out of Cherokee County... |
| greglomax |
Posted - 08/02/2008 : 14:33:13
I think there are two different views on this:
1) For the super star player it does not matter because they will stand out.
2) For all other players standing out and making themselves noticed is a little more of a challenge.
Yes it is possible to be seen on any team, it just requires more work sometimes.
There is also the argument that if you are not on the top couple of teams are you getting seen any better than a team from somewhere else. Probably not. In that case it comes down to the coaching you are getting.
For example, The 16U EC A's. I believe most of thse kids are from Cherokee Co. They could be playing with a team in that area but I firmly believe they are getting a better coaching experience playing on the A's, and are putting themselves in a better situation to make the HS team.
It's all about the ability, the objective, and the opportunity.
Every player and family is different. |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 08/02/2008 : 12:15:41
quote:
Originally posted by 25LOVESTHEGAME
The truth of the matter is if you can play it doesnt matter where you play. There are hundreds or thousands of kids signing minor league contracts or college scholarships that live in Wyoming, New Jersey, Utah where ever. Look at #2 on South Forsyth or the kid on PC Vipers. If they stayed at SF or PC they would be looked at just as hard there than if they played at EC. It does help the fringe player that the scouts see when they are coming to watch the Big Dawgs.
You mean exposure for the fringe player.
Just being exposed isnt the key to playing ball or even being recruited.
Trust me if you're good enough theyll find you.
There are dozens of websites dealing with the subject of being recruited and contacting schools for tryouts and so on.
No one has to do it for you . |
| leftysmom |
Posted - 08/02/2008 : 12:10:37
I agree with what 25LOVESTHEGAME said above. It doesn't matter where your kid plays, if he is truely good enough for college ball or the majors or whatever, he'll be known about and seen by the right people. If your kid is not all that, then I've always heard that it is better to play for a lesser ranked team where he'll have the least likelyhood of riding the bench. Let's face it, Mom and Dad, most of our kids will not make it that far. I suggest finding a team where you and your kid like the other kids and the coaching for the most part and where you can have a fun season. Chasing a dream is fine, but don't run so hard that you look back one day and see that you missed the fun and still have nothing to show for all of the ladder climbing. |
| 25LOVESTHEGAME |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 16:15:30
The truth of the matter is if you can play it doesnt matter where you play. There are hundreds or thousands of kids signing minor league contracts or college scholarships that live in Wyoming, New Jersey, Utah where ever. Look at #2 on South Forsyth or the kid on PC Vipers. If they stayed at SF or PC they would be looked at just as hard there than if they played at EC. It does help the fringe player that the scouts see when they are coming to watch the Big Dawgs. |
| goyard |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 13:26:14
One thing is for sure...whether you love ECB or love to dislike ECB, the mere mention of ECB in the Subject column sure does create a lot of traffic and hits. Check the count column :) |
| yarddog |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 00:19:22
Baseball21: That 14U team you speak of is bigger, faster, and stronger than most 16U teams. Heck, they might even be able to beat some JUCO schools. I doubt the bottom of the barrel ECB teams get any exposure, unless there getting their teeth kicked in by the top team. |
| baseball21 |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 15:15:58
I would like to share my opinion about our time playing @ East Cobb. We have played 4 years there and as a whole a very pleasant experince. If your child is a serious ball player it the only place to be, you have more exposure to college scouts than any High School. We played for a 14yr team this year and I know 2 players on our team that have received letters from ACC schools which I have personally seen. |
| ECB_Insider |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 13:36:39
Walt,
I can see that argument for the older age groups but don't think that will work for the younger age groups.
I still think what happens is Guerry tells an older age group coach that, and that coach tells a younger age group coach assuming the same requirements apply.
Guerry will have a meeting shortly with all the coaches and if he tells them in that meeting that 15 is required, then you know it is true. Outside of that, it's still the same as it was. |
| biged |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 09:33:58
Next years 14u Astros team will carry "30". Thats right "30". Some type of split squad thing. Can't wait to see how this pans out. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 21:37:50
"It also makes sense that coaches would look to encourage players outside the system to go through the tryouts." That's funny..."Hey Dad, bring your kid out for try-outs..pay the 100 bucks and if he's performs "good" enough at the try-out we might pick him..." or do you thinks this makes more sense. "Hey Dad, we want your kid to play for our team next year, he definately is on the team, but because of ECB rules you have to pay the 100 dollar "try-out" fee." I've seen kids signed, sealed, and delivered to the Astro's long before any try-out. Seen kids put on all teams, Astro's included, regardless of what they did at the try-outs too...and not because they were "great" ballplayers from the year before..Like I said earlier 90% of all teams including the Astros were picked before any try-out...now my son hasn't played there in 2 years, so I guess things could be different...but I doubt it..
I agree with Guerry if he thinks a coach can take 15 players teach them to play,work them in and out of games and win...now whether or not that happens (which from a lot of anadotal evidence it doesn't) is probably beyond any of his control...You know the Urban Legend...any problem on an ECB team that isn't a 13U or higher Astro team is just "disgruntal parents in his eyes..." |
| ECB_Insider |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 16:07:42
Sportsdad,
I thought every urband legend had some trace of truth to it. 
I think Guerry believes the players that come to the tryouts deserve a place to play and I get a sense he does not understand how coaches can't take 12, 13, 14, or even 15 players teach them to play, work them in and out of games and win.
Agree or disagree, I think this is the basis of the story.
I could be wrong. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 13:49:32
"Actually, that is an urban legend. ECB would prefer higher roster numbers for obvious reasons but has not mandated it as of yet. Not saying that it may not change but for right now they want 12, which is reasonable."
Might not be "mandated" by ECB, but 2 years ago the coaches were telling everyone that they were required to carry 15 by ECB for 14U...so any way you cut it...you either had "somewhat non truthful coaches" for obvious reasons, complicent with ECB...(nothing goes on at ECB the Gerry isn't knowledgable of)or it was "recommended" by ECB, which although isn't mandatory...it certainly is de facto..To say that ECB wants 12 is questionable...If ECB wanted 12...thats how many there would be on each team..including the 13U and 14U Astros...
Don't want to turn this into the annaul bash ECB...and I've said many times on this board that ECB is a great organization and a great place to play, and Guerry Baldwin does a great job at running it( besides being probably one of the best pitching coaches in the country on any level) but it is what it is...and that sometimes isn't utopia, which isn't any different than probably every other park out there. To say that this is all urban legend implies that there is no truth behind any of the statements made...and that's not quite accurate either.. |
| ECB_Insider |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 13:17:29
I believe what gets mixed up a little is Guerry wants the Astros teams at 13U and older to carry at least 14-15 players.
As for picking ahead of time, any coach would be foolish not to know the players coming up both in the ECB program and outside. It also makes sense that coaches would look to encourage players outside the system to gothrough the tryouts.
I think a lot of talented kids have not found a team at times because they get caught in between teams. They don't make the cut for the top teams but the next tier of teams have already kind of decided their players and end up with some that are not necessarily the best they could get. Unfortunately it happens a lot of times with coaches kids. I have seen many teams where 4 coaches have the bottom 4 players on a team. That is typically a recipe for disaster. Note to people being recruited by an EC team or any other team for that manner, if the team is dad coached (there are some really good ones and really bad ones) know where the coaches kids fall in the order. |
| bb baseball |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 11:46:05
quote:
Originally posted by WaltDem
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Old School
Every age group will have 75 or more kids show up for trouts. That means the top 10-15% of the players will be able to compete at a pretty good level, but it also means there are a lot of kids left for other teams that may not have good coaching. You have to really be careful about ending up on these teams where the coaching may be suspect and the daddy-ball can be heavy.
Ask before you sign on, and I don't mean ask the coaches.
Actually coming up for 13 and 14 year olds the East Cobb baseball program wants 15 players per roster. Straight from coaches mouths.
*footnote this is not an urban legend
ALWAYS ASK DONT ASSUME!
Actually, that is an urban legend. ECB would prefer higher roster numbers for obvious reasons but has not mandated it as of yet. Not saying that it may not change but for right now they want 12, which is reasonable. |
| SportsDad |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 16:35:39
Well from someone who's son played at ECB for five years and who loved it and I think it's a great program...those are not all urban legends..Now unless it's changed in the last two years...the 13U and 14U teams were pretty set in stone BEFORE the tryouts...now they didn't announced it,,,but that doesn't mean it wasn't true...As far as the "Kid out of no-where syndrome"...the two I saw and spoke with their parents said "they were asked to try-out"..most teams already had 90% or more of their team formed way before the try-outs, like i said, we played there for 5 years and we KNEW what team we were playing for way before the try-outs...the try-outs are , a chance for a few...some intruction for all (not much honestly) and one heck of a fundraiser... I wouldn't even call them try-outs or at least not in the true sense of the word..every year I saw kids go home without making a team who were better ball players than half of the kids on teams...Not commenting on the "fairness" of this..just commenting on the facts...Agree with you on the cost and the quality of coaches..saw good ones and bad ones there, but that's no different than any other park..There is a lot of drop-off between the top two teams in any age group, that's probably because of the success of ECB...6 years ago there was only 3-4 teams in each age group..now I see sometimes 7 or more..even 4 years ago I saw a teams out of ECB that were less than .200 ball clubs..heck there was one that was 0-18 playing NWBA.. |
| ECB_Insider |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 13:23:28
Walt,
Go back and look at what I said. I said 12U and under have never been required to carry more than 12. |
| scotsar |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 10:49:51
quote:
Originally posted by charlieh
I would say 99.9% of the kids that start off at ECB at age 8 will never make it to age 16 on the number 1 team at ECB. All this youth baseball before puberty is sort of a big waste. I don't care how many lessons you have or how many private instructions or games you play it mostly comes down to genetics when you hit 14 to 15 years old. Parents look in the mirror if you are 5 foot nothing and you are slow and suck at sports your son is probably not gonna play past highschool. All these lessons at a young age don't mean much and I guarantee you can teach a 14, 15, 16 year old athlete in one year the footwork, throwing techniques and proper hitting techniques and they will have it down by the next season. Pro Scouts say it all the time, "I am looking for kids with speed and good arms, I can teach a kid to hit." Keep it fun and work hard and you might make your highschool team, after that it's genetics and alot of "LUCK".
Mr charlie perhaps you mean well but you're quite inaccurate on this statement(s).
I am a Physician and specialize in Pediatrics. Occasionally I may deal with teen year patients. Judging a child's future in athletics by the size of his parents either positively or negatively is truly a form of ignorance , and smacks of agenda seeking.
There is no complete bearing on athletic success :
First you dont see the grandparents the extended family . Are you aware that generation skipping genetic influences are as common as direct parental genetic influence? This is true for body size , disease tendency , mental health, etc.
Example . Stand a professional baseball player next to his parents : how many times in 10 will he be noticeably taller and larger than his parents? : 9 to 9.5.
Another example. How many times have you seen a large parent(s) with a small to average size child well into their teen years? I see this frequently.
I know of athletic skilled parent(s) whose child could not throw a ball or a rock 10 feet in front of themselves.
PLease be careful how you judge children, openly or privately , attempting to play sports based on parents size and " skills". That is quite unfair and void of any facts whatsoever. |
| ECB_Insider |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 23:10:39
Biged,
That is not completely true about the number of players on the ECB teams. At the older ages Guerry wants the Astros to carry at least that many, but 12U and under has never been recommended to carry 15. 12 at the most.
Other urban legends that I have heard:
*It costs a lot more to play at East Cobb: Not true. All things being equal (same number of uniforms, same number of tournaments, etc) the cost is relatively the same as other travel teams ( for ages 9U to 13U the cost is somewhere in the $1500 - $2400 range) depending on the answer to the uniform and tournaments question.
*Teams are already picked before the tryouts. - Not true. The 13U-16U Astros are NOT picked ahead of time and in most occasions have additional workouts the week following before they come to their finalized list of players. After that, the other teams can make their final decisions. There are many conversations that go on between teams and players, but the teams are not finalized until the Astros have made their selection.
*Other than the Astros teams, the others teams are all coached by dads and are not that good. - False. Just look at the other teams rankings with USSSA and Travel Ball Select. Some are coached by dads, but others are coached by non-dad's. Both types have some VERY good coaches and teams. Both have teams and coaches that are not very good. You have to do your research before you agree to play with a team.
I would be interested in hearing the other urban legends out there. |
| Dr. Old School |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 18:04:34
Every age group will have 75 or more kids show up for trouts. That means the top 10-15% of the players will be able to compete at a pretty good level, but it also means there are a lot of kids left for other teams that may not have good coaching. You have to really be careful about ending up on these teams where the coaching may be suspect and the daddy-ball can be heavy.
Ask before you sign on, and I don't mean ask the coaches. |
| biged |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 16:32:32
one more point. ECB teams usually carry a roster of 15 kids. Thats a lot. There will always be complaining parents regarding playing time, it is just magnified at ECB due to the higher cost and bigger rosters. |
| RESPECT THE GAME |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 15:19:34
Scotsar, post your email and I will send details...
|
| scotsar |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 14:37:15
RESPECT : interesting thoughts.
You could be on the mark but my thought are : if the coaching is no good, they had no requirements for skill, how do you ever get ' bared' from coming back as coach unless being violent ?
Our boy was up there for a season and the only complaints we heard were parents who thought there boy should play here or there and he wasnt. Some were pretty farout in left field themselves 
bigED has some great words on young versis old kids.
You just dont know. High School coaches will say the same that the "feeder program" is no true indicator just a recruiting ploy.
Ending of the day for those fellas its about how you play , NOT where did you play or whose your name.
Leave that at the door of the rec park ! |
| RESPECT THE GAME |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 13:29:58
I AGREE WITH biged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|
| SportsDad |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 11:28:00
Older the kids are, more likely they didn't come up through the ECB programs, on the elite team..Astros) Heard Bobby Cox state on ESPN when Leo Mazilla left, that the best pitching coach in the country was in Marietta, but he wouldn't leave his position..He was talking about Gerry Baldwin..Heard from many people they tought the same. Same with the other coaches with the elite teams..Now that being said. I don't know if I could win as many games as the elite teams do, but I bet if I could run that type of talent out in the field, I'd be pretty close in wins...Success breeds success, and you can't not acknowledge the success of ECB...warts and all..It's a great program.. |
