| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 02:17:49
OK now this is a new one for Dan : what does the term of Bat Rolling mean ?
What i hear is the metal bat is worked on a lathe or wheel that softens the thing up and then the hit ball goes further
who in heck does this kinda work anyways and is it frowned on ?? |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| LilBigTown |
Posted - 01/19/2014 : 12:54:42
Easy to tell if a bat has been rolled. Look at end cap an if there us glue like substances squeezed out of end then its been rolled. Caps should fit flush with
clean lines no exceptions. People really get confused between cheating an gaining a competitive edge. What would be the difference between a kid using last years bat that has been hit 3000 times an a new bat that has been rolled , none. Simple solution is that all ages use wood but wait I pretty sure you can alter a wood bat too. Its interstitial to me to study past champions especially repeating champions like the dynasty of Tom Brady an patriots 3 titles - caught spy gate fined 500,000 no titles since. Real question is did Patriots make more than 500,000 during three title runs. I dont condone cheating at any level but in todays society it happens on every level. Dont be part of this problem be part of solution an help your son by not rolling his bat an explain to him if he wants an edge hit 1000 balls a week for 3 weeks. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 01/17/2014 : 07:37:30
All I know is I have seen big strong 13 and 14 year olds hit balls at or around 300 feet with BBCOR and Wood, and then go out and hit balls 400 feet with a drop 5.
I am not exaggerating when I say 400 feet. |
| Marlin |
Posted - 11/13/2013 : 20:35:10
I was told by a Combat employee that they test out of the wrapper and after rolled break in in order to get certified, but who really knows what goes on in that money grab industry..... |
| Big Daddy |
Posted - 11/13/2013 : 16:16:55
I read about the test and believe originally it was performed on "out of the wrapper" bats and there was not a difference in the standard for composite. Maybe it changed? With that said, I'd be curious to know if the Easton rep rolls their bats for the test or if there is a "composite break in standard" for what actually represents a broken-in bat for the test. I'd be wary of a manufacturer being responsible for sending in a "broken-in bat". I'm sure they would NEVER fudge it...ha.
That being the case, if the BPF 1.15 test was the actual ceiling, what the heck are people spending $300 on composite bats for if a $100 bat does the same thing? Maybe paint jobs? I personally believe that composite bats ARE hotter as I've seen a difference between manufactures. It may have to do with weight distribution, preferences, etc., but they sure seem to hit the ball farther than a double walled aluminium........both with the 1.15 stamp. |
| Marlin |
Posted - 11/13/2013 : 12:25:47
quote:
Originally posted by Big Daddy
This is what's silly to me with the younger ages and BPF 1.15. The BPF test shoots a ball at the same speed at stationary bats and measures the distance the wall moves or trampoline of the wall with a high speed camera. Too much movement and the bat fails the test. All bats tested are new out of the wrapper. Everyone knows that composite bats get hotter when they are broken in, therefore, a broken in composite bat will offer an advantage over a double walled aluminum bat. Kinda goes against the whole point of the test if you ask me...
i believe most bat companies roll their bats to simulate break in and also test BPF at break in. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 11/13/2013 : 12:15:28
quote:
Originally posted by Big Daddy
This is what's silly to me with the younger ages and BPF 1.15. The BPF test shoots a ball at the same speed at stationary bats and measures the distance the wall moves or trampoline of the wall with a high speed camera. Too much movement and the bat fails the test. All bats tested are new out of the wrapper. Everyone knows that composite bats get hotter when they are broken in, therefore, a broken in composite bat will offer an advantage over a double walled aluminum bat. Kinda goes against the whole point of the test if you ask me...
It was described to me by an Easton rep that the composite bats are broken in before testing and cannot exceed the bpf standard at any point in their life. So a manufacturer will have to either break the bat in prior to shipping if they desire it to be at or near it's peak performance out of the wrapper, or ship the bat so that it performs less initially but nears or reaches it's peak/max bpf when it's broken in.
Basically, the composite bats must now be designed so that they always stay within the bpf limits. The scenario you describe above should not hold true since a composite that isn't broken in prior to shipping would not be performing at the bpf standard out of the wrapper.
According to the standard, an unaltered bat cannot exceed the standard during its lifespan. |
| Big Daddy |
Posted - 11/13/2013 : 09:26:25
This is what's silly to me with the younger ages and BPF 1.15. The BPF test shoots a ball at the same speed at stationary bats and measures the distance the wall moves or trampoline of the wall with a high speed camera. Too much movement and the bat fails the test. All bats tested are new out of the wrapper. Everyone knows that composite bats get hotter when they are broken in, therefore, a broken in composite bat will offer an advantage over a double walled aluminum bat. Kinda goes against the whole point of the test if you ask me... |
| 743 |
Posted - 11/12/2013 : 10:47:38
I wont even let my son use his composite bat in the cage because it wears it out too fast and I want it to last the whole season. Composites are so hot out of the wrapper even before break in just a waste of money. Glad 14U is going to BBCOR as well. |
| ItsGodGiven |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 21:25:28
Just bored so I will add my 2 cents. Taking lots of BP is the best way to "break in" a comp bat. No need to roll a bat if you take plenty of BP. Absolutely no way to know if a bat has been rolled, none. I know of Dads that have had their kids bats rolled and it has done nothing to improve their swing and overall performance. It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian. And why give your bat to someone you don't know? I here some teams send all their bats off to be rolled. Well the same guys that roll bats, also cut bats. You shouldn't even want to be associated with those guys. I hear Triple Crown is moving to BBCOR in their 14u division for 2014. I think 14u is a good age to move up to BBCOR. Happy Holidays to all you crazy baseball Dads! I hate this time of year... |
| Card6 |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 16:24:53
ITK is right. IMHO there is no difference in hitting your comp bat 500-700 times with a quarter turn than rolling. Same results. So buy your comp in the fall hit all winter long no problem. As stated Rolling will greatly cut the life of the bat. Is it cheating? Just speeds up the break in and cut the life of your $300 bat. Doesn't increase the performance any more than a correct break in. So no it isn't cheating. You just lost valuable time in the cage. I think rolling is for the rich guys that buy yearly a new bat or the lazy. Be careful buying used composites. |
| wareagle |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 11:37:47
I do not think it is "illegal" in the sense that it is a crime, and baseball organizations have no authority over them. There is currently no way to stop the practice and it will probably continue until kids get hurt and they get prosecuted and/or sued! Parents and coaches probably would be liable as well! |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 09:37:05
quote:
Originally posted by C. MORTON
quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve
only composite bats can be rolled
That's what I thought, but he says any bat can be
You can roll any bat. You can roll a light pole. But rolling only has an impact on the performance of composite bats. The performance of alloy bats don't improve as they're used. There are no fibers to relax as there are with composites. If you just think about the science behind it, it is obvious that there is no benefit to rolling an aluminum bat.
As I mentioned above, rolling accelerates the break-in of composite bats. Your friend may be confusing rolling with shaving which actually removes material from the inside of the bat barrel which can increase the trampoline effect of the bat. Shaving DOES increase performance of alloy bats where rolling does not.
Both practices are considered cheating. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 09:16:57
If it is illegal they should crack down on these guys selling the service I think. From what I have seen the composite bats are hot enough right out the wrapper and rolling will only make the bat wear out sooner. A waste if you ask me. My take is just go to wood and stop all the insanity. |
| C. MORTON |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 18:33:18
quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve
only composite bats can be rolled
That's what I thought, but he says any bat can be |
| nastycurve |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 17:26:42
only composite bats can be rolled |
| C. MORTON |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 13:14:12
There is a guy that I see on face book that rolls bats and he says any bat can be rolled. He seems to do a ton of them all over the south, and as a constant supply sent to him to be rolled. Baseball bats seem to come in more than softball bats. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 13:05:43
quote:
Originally posted by Hobnailboot
Agree 100% with zbake...if you cheat and hurt a player then shame on the parents. Is rolling the same as shaving? Heard a team was busted at E32 last week with a shaved bat when the end cap popped off during play.
No, rolling and shaving are different. Shaving requires you remove the end-cap and use some means of "shaving" the inner wall to make the bat walls thinner. This produces more flex and hence trampoline effect. Lathes or power drills are used to sand the inner wall to make them thinner. The same effect would be had by shaving the outer barrel of the bat, but that would be a bit too obvious for those wanting to cheat.
Where rolling the bat only applies to composites, shaving can occur with both composite and metal with positive bat barrel performance. Shaving truly ALTERS the bat design from what the manufacturer intended where rolling accelerates the break-in process and doesn't alter the bat (per se) from the engineered design.
And just to be clear, I'm opposed to any form of cheating, so don't take my "matter of fact" answer as some form of acceptance or promoting either alteration. I have no tolerance for any player, parent, coach or provider of any equipment that has been altered to provide some advantage to the user. |
| bball_735 |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 12:47:46
interesting thought... bat manufactures test BBCOR specs with rolled bats to verify that they do not exceed the .5 BBCOR limits.
theoretically,if you roll a bat then it only perform up to the BBCOR limits. the walls are not thinned out with rolling as stated above, that is shaving by removing the end cap and using a rotary machine to remove material from the barrel. |
| Hobnailboot |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 11:55:33
Agree 100% with zbake...if you cheat and hurt a player then shame on the parents. Is rolling the same as shaving? Heard a team was busted at E32 last week with a shaved bat when the end cap popped off during play. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 08:54:02
Rolling only applies to composite bats. As composite bats are used (balls hit), it relaxes the carbon fibers of the barrel, providing more of the "trampoline" effect of the bat. Typically composite bats require a "break-in" period whereby balls being hit eventually lead to the bat being broken in to the point that it provides its maximum performance.
Rolling a bat basically does the same thing, only in an accelerated and more even manner. It simply speeds up the break-in process so that a new bat might perform at its maximum ability before hitting any baseballs.
Rolling does not apply to metal bats at all. It is frowned upon because it alters the bat which violates most every organization rules regarding altered bats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_rolling |
| bballman |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 08:42:04
Yes, it is softened and the walls are thinned. Supposed to give it more bounce. Supposedly, the new BBCOR cannot be rolled. It is not only frowned on, it is illegal. Considered cheating. |
| zbake |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 08:36:05
yes it is frowned upon because its flat out cheating. It makes the bat illegal. It makes the bat hotter. And those that do it (with the mindset if you are not cheating you are not trying mentality) How are they going to feel if the player with the illegal bat drills one right back at the pitcher and causes deadly harm? |
| nastycurve |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 08:22:39
Bat rolling is a way to break a composite bat in quicker. Basically they but the bat in a vice type mechanism with rollers and compress the composite fibers to break them apart evenly. On the positive note it does make your composite bat much hotter as it gets it up to its full capability quickly(no break in time), negatively, being that your bat is at the full point of break in, it is also at the beginning of break-down and will wear out faster. Basically, its the equivalent to sitting in the cage and hitting 500 balls equally around the bat.
I found out about the process a couple years ago and wondered how many times I'd played against rolled bats and didn't know. |
