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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TheNatural |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 08:07:35
I saw a post about hitting lessons and saw where someone said if you are not using video to look at swings you are not doing a very good job of hitting instruction or something like that and I agree.
The question is what are you looking for in the video? I see so many different hitting ideas and theories and many contradict each other. Would love to get a discussion going on what everyone thinks really happens in a high level baseball swing? Myths etc.
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| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TheNatural |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 09:52:35
Great post aimhigh and if you watch most top guys hitting you see that "puff" of dirt just like in the video showing the backwards push off or whatever you want to call it before the swing, exactly like you describe it. |
| aimhigh |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 10:27:12
I made a typo in the second paragraph of my last post. Meant to say "lift the back heel when the front heel his LOWERED.
This youtube video I made shows Hamilton's back foot during transition when his pelvis goes from coil to uncoil. Note the direction of pressure at his back foot as his pelvis begins to turn forward...it's back towards the catcher. I see lots of kids who try and turn their pelvis forward by turning their rear leg forward...resulting in the back leg just spinning in the rear hip socket. If they want to weight shift like the better MLB hitters, they need to do what Hamilton does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f0Vx_fYfaQ&feature=youtu.be |
| AllStar |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 09:46:48
squish the bug |
| aimhigh |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 17:16:39
If the kids weight shift correctly the rear toe will very likely come off the ground. When Ted Williams was asked about his rear foot coming off the come, his response was "It's a hard thing not to do". He went on to say...and this is a big, big key..."It's not a weight shift, it's more an unwinding of the hips." What Ted was saying is that you do not want to pull the back foot off the ground by using forward linear movement. Ideally you want the forward rotation of the pelvis to pull the rear foot off the ground. Ted understood that the weight shift was the act of turning the pelvis back (backward weight shift) and then turning the pelvis forward (forward weight shift). However he also understood that when you lift your front foot to turn your hips back, you have to have some forward linear movement in order to keep your head centered between your feet. To simplify it even further; he is saying that you have to keep your head close to centered between your feet AS you wind and unwind your pelvis/hips.
When you wind your hips back, you should feel pressure at the back foot in a clockwise direction for a RH batter. When a decision is made to swing, the hips will reverse direction and go from turning back (coiling/winding) to turning forward (uncoiling/unwinding). This "transition point" is critical. When the hips reverse, the pressure in the back foot should momentarily deepen in the same clockwise direction that was built up during the coil. I believe most kids if left alone do this action naturally, but I see some kids being taught to drive their back knee down-and-in or to lift the back heel when the front heel is lifted. I see lots of kids who don't weight shift correctly. They just spin the back leg in the rear hip socket and never get off their backside, or they skip the coil and use forward linear momentum to pull the rear foot off the ground.
If the kids coil and simply get their butt into it, they should get very close to the correct action; assuming they do it from a balanced position. Anatomically what actually happens in a good weight shift is that the butt muscles attempt to turn the rear leg clockwise (RH batter). The rear leg can't turn clockwise because the rear foot is in a cleat in the dirt. What happens instead is that the pelvis shifts forward and unwinds towards the pitch. The rear leg/foot pushes in an external direction against the Earth and the Earth pushes back. The Earth wins and sends the pelvis forward and into rotation. As soon as the hips begin to turn forward, the pressure at the back foot is lost and the forward turning pelvis pulls the rear foot off the ground. However it's important to hold onto the pressure at the back foot that was created during the coil, until the hips begin to turn forward. The rear leg/foot is essentially an anchor point that the hips use as leverage to get the pelvis to reverse. If you do something on purpose with the back leg/foot that gives up the pressure at the back foot before the hips begin forward rotation, you will kill the weight shift. When hitting, it's important to prevent any slack from creeping into your movements. Slack is bad...stretch/pressure/torque is good. I've got some awesome clips of Hamilton, Cargo, Pujols, Trout etc, clearly showing how the rear foot is trying to turn back towards the catcher when the hips reverse direction. When they get their "butt into it", the direction of pressure at the back foot is back towards the catcher.
Google "Mike Maves-Secret in the Dirt".
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| TheNatural |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 10:00:48
They must maintain pressure against the ground with their rear leg/foot through transition. I want to see them using the rear leg as a launching pad for the pelvis/hips.
What does this means? Maybe i am reading it wrong but I think most good hitters back foot comes off the ground or slides on the toe when they hit is this after what you are saying here. Everything else I think is spot on. |
| aimhigh |
Posted - 05/15/2013 : 14:36:41
I use video to make sure the kids are performing the key movements that I see all the best MLB hitters doing; past and present.
The first thing I look for is the hip cock. The hip cock is a natural movement for most kids, however it typically gets coached out of kids due to poor instruction. The next thing I look for is whether or not the kids leverage the ground correctly at the moment of transition when the pelvis/hips go from turning back to turning forward. They must maintain pressure against the ground with their rear leg/foot through transition. I want to see them using the rear leg as a launching pad for the pelvis/hips.
The next thing I look for is if they balance correctly when they lift their front foot/heel to cock the hips. I want to see their head kept close to centered between their feet from stance to contact. Most kids I see don't balance correctly because they have been told to "Stay Back" or to keep their head perfectly still like a golfer is told to do. The kids must be allowed to let their head/torso come forward some when they lift the front foot/heel. It's the only way to keep the head centered between the feet when the front foot gets lifted.
The next thing I look for is a good sequence. I want to see the hands staying back/going back during the stride. Keep in mind that I don't view the stride as a "Stride". I view the stride as the hitter allowing their head/torso to come forward some to maintain balance. I don't want to see the kids escorting their hands/bat towards the pitcher as they come forward to balance. Some forward movement of the hands is okay, but I prefer to get it to a minimum. If the hands go back/stay back during the stride then the kids are creating stretch between their upper and lower body. They are essentially winding the rubber band...removing slack.
The next thing I look for is how the kids work their back arm at "GO" when they make their decision to swing. If I see their hands moving towards the pitch AS their back elbow lowers/slots, then I know they are doing it incorrectly. I've never seen a kid who swings down or has an "A to C" swing path, slot the back elbow correctly. The best MLB hitters do NOT take their hands towards the pitch as the back elbow slots. MLB hitters keep their hands BACK at their rear shoulder/armpit as their back elbow slots. MLB hitters actually continue to LOAD as their back elbow lowers. Most kids I see UNLOAD as their back elbow lowers. The result is two totally different barrel paths. I think this is another movement that many kids start off doing naturally, only to have it coached out of them through poor instruction. When the kids work the back arm correctly, all kinds of good things happen naturally. The kids will hit for way more power, they will get on plane of the pitch way earlier, and they will have a very, very tight hand path that is fluid/natural and is not contrived or forced.
Another thing I look for is shoulder tilt. All MLB hitters drop the back shoulder at swing initiation. This is another one of those actions that when performed correctly, naturally helps with downstream movements. It's also one of those actions that gets coached out of kids.
I guess you could say that when I look at video, I look for those natural actions that many kids are born with. The body is anatomically designed to work a certain way and I believe most kids are born with a natural swing. They're not born knowing how to hit a 90 mph fastball, or sliders and curves; but the basics are there. I look for those natural movements and try and help the kids refine those movements.
When it comes to hitting there are all sorts of myths that get parroted around. You should compare what anybody tells you about the swing to slow motion video of the best MLB hitters. What you will find is that MLB hitters don't do what gets commonly taught. They don't swing down to create backspin, they don't swing with level shoulders, they don't keep their head still when they lift their front foot, they don't have an A to C swing path, they don't get their front foot down when the pitcher gets their front foot down or whatever is meant by "Get the Front Foot Down Early".
Also, all MLB hitters don't hold their hands up high. See Williams, Ruth, Mantle, Bonds, Kaline, Hamilton, Boggs, Brett, Utley, Ortiz, Youkilis, Strawberry, Clemente etc. A kid's handset is a style choice. As long as they can get to a good ready to hit position on time, I'm fine. |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 09:41:07
quote:
Originally posted by TheNatural
I saw a post about hitting lessons and saw where someone said if you are not using video to look at swings you are not doing a very good job of hitting instruction or something like that and I agree.
The question is what are you looking for in the video? I see so many different hitting ideas and theories and many contradict each other. Would love to get a discussion going on what everyone thinks really happens in a high level baseball swing? Myths etc.
I try to reinforce a simple swing with all of my sons. They have all three enjoyed pretty good success at the plate since they started playing. Each one of them at some point has tried to introduce some extra swing mechanics from time to time. I think they pick it up from playing video games and watching other people bat. I do my best to bring their swings back to as simple a form as possible. We work a lot on hitting opposite field and we work a lot on keeping their hands inside the ball.
Coach's Eye and Ubersense are both great apps for taking video of their swings. My oldest is one who learns a lot from seeing himself and making corrections. The younger two still listen to what I say and I don't need to show them on video ... yet !! |
| TheNatural |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 08:03:55
ABC baseball when I posted this topic I thought for sure there would be a lot of arguing about this and that and I am sure that is yet to come, but I will say I can't argue with anything you have written. I agree with everything you said in your post about hitting. I will say having played at a high level gives a hitting instructor a perspective that some parents will never understand. (it looks easy from behind the backstop) I will also say a lot of professional and ex players think they know what they do or did in a high level swing but have no clue what they were doing but just did it. When you break down video of some guys you see they don't do what they teach. Great topic and keep it rolling.
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| RACGOFAR |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 21:10:18
You don't need to spend more than $5 to get a good video app. Baseball Coach Plus HD for the iPad is all you can eat for $2.99. Great for pitching, hitting, fielding. It has stock footage of swings and pitching mechanics that you can sync up and compare. If you are willing to do some research and put some time in on watching video and analyzing it, you don't have to have played professional or even advanced level baseball to become proficient in the fundementals of pitching and hitting mechanics. I'm not suggesting that lessons are not beneficial, they certainly are. But when it comes to spending several thousand dollars over the course of your kid's playing career, having a little knowledge is beneficial. You want to know if you are paying for diamonds or cubic zirconia and you have to do more than just a lesson a week to continue to improve. |
| gamehunter13 |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 13:10:48
Great Advice...thanks:]
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| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 11:05:51
There has been a lot of talk about this lately. Here is my opinion which is by no means an expert one. Not sure if I'm talking about high level like what you mean but below are my thoughts to simplify how I deal with hitting.
1. Find a hitting coach, someone that has played baseball at a high level. To me, it makes more sense to have a former MLB player as a coach. That being said, not all former MLB players are created equal and know hitting inside and out. Even those guys have hitting coaches, but they know more than I do.
2. You can get coaching/hitting tips from 10 different people. You will come out of it with 10 different approaches/styles and concerns over moving parts. My kid has one coach he goes to for hitting. In my book, that supersedes ANYBODY else. Sure, one of our travel team coaches may want you closer to the plate, but lets not screw with the mechanics. There have not been any conflicts over this to date.
3. I never played baseball besides T-ball growing up. I don't know how to build a good swing from the ground up. However, these last couple of years I have learned what a good swing looks like. I know what my son's coach stresses and I've been around enough to pick up on flaws in my son's swing at times.
4. If you are going to invest 1000+ to play travel ball, get your kid some hitting lessons. It can only help. Unless you are an ex ball players at a high level, pay for the extra focus on hitting. We have had 2 kids on our 8 year old team that have instantly done much better at the plate after their dad got them some hitting lessons. Its great if dad played in high school, but entrust somebody that knows more that you do to give your kid the best opportunity.
I don't know if at this level you need high speed video cameras and need to go sit in front of a screen and break down a swing frame by frame. I can see that happening in college. Maybe you pay for that in a clinic you put high school age kids through. I don't know, that kind of thing may be more of the norm now. You hear about top football players going to athletic performance camps prior to the draft. Now days, you see more Middle School and High School kids getting speed & agility training. It would not surprise me if at some point the hitting instructions becomes more advanced.
What I've learned to monitor and how I understand it:
1. Hip rotation - the back side hip needs to come through, this is torque generation as I understand it for POP.
2. Hands - don't drop them, this is to help stay on plane I'm guessing. May be a natural tendency, my son holds his high about ear level to start.
3. Tight hands - tight hands are quick hands. Keep them tight to the body and through the zone. Sometimes you may get long to reach an outside pitch, but typically a slower swing.
4. Stepping in the bucket - after the swing you don't want that front foot not point out towards the pitcher, if you are stepping out or falling (towards 1st for a lefty), there is a mechanical/balance issue
5. Timing mechanism - most do this with their foot. My son use to only do this by loading back, his feet didn't move at all. After stepping up to a faster pitching machine, he naturally develop a heel raise on his front foot that he now uses all the time.
6. Finish your swim - finish on the opposite site.
7. Head - keep it still, see the ball hit the bat. |
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