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| southpaw dad |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 10:08:32
We had a situation this weekend where we had a left handed batter square and bunt the ball into the air. When he did, he lost track of the ball, runs up the line in foul territory but out of the batters box when the ball comes down and hit the batter runner in the helmet(completely unintentional). What is the correct call? |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| christheump |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 10:48:40
Yeah...I just cant do it anymore. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 18:26:51
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
Dang I am going to miss this stuff!!!!
Why? Where are you going? |
| michael payne |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:02:25
Did I miss a post? Chris are you getting out of calling? I have put down my mask to help coach my sons 10u team but I know in a couple of years I will strap it up again. |
| christheump |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 15:11:14
Dang I am going to miss this stuff!!!! |
| F2202 |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 11:21:19
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
What about the base coach that moves out of the box to give the defense a play technically does he have the right to the coaching box? I don't know?
Nope. Base coach has to vacate area to give way to fielder trying to make a play on a batted ball. If a thrown ball accidentally hits a base coach, the ball is live. |
| christheump |
Posted - 03/12/2013 : 15:20:54
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Interesting. Based on multiple MLB rules, I would believe that is ultimately boils down to umpire judgement relative to fair or foul position of the ball, assuming that no interference occurred.
MLB Rule 6.05(g) states:
6.05
A batter is out when --
(g) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder;
So you can assume that since it clearly states his "fair" ball, then it would exclude a foul ball, therefore the ruling in that case would be foul ball and not batter out.
If you further look at the MLB definitions of fair and foul ball, specifically a fly ball, you see that it is the the umpire's judgment relative to the foul line and foul pole as to whether the ball is in foul or fair territory.
A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.
A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball.
A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.
A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.
So based on the definitions, and with the assumption that the runner in no way interfered with a fielder attempting to make a play on the ball, I would think the ruling would be foul ball if the umpire judged the fly ball to be foul of the line and striking the batting while he was completely in foul territory.
BINGO |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 03/12/2013 : 13:15:24
Was the ball even catch able? Had the batter stayed in the box would it have hit him? I would have called foul ball if there was no way the defense would have made a play. If a batter fouls a ball straight up and he is in the box and it hits him in the helmet, he never leaves the box, it wouldn't be interference then right? Seems like the runner was trying to get out of the way so I say foul ball. What about the base coach that moves out of the box to give the defense a play technically does he have the right to the coaching box? I don't know? |
| southpaw dad |
Posted - 03/12/2013 : 10:57:20
I would venture to say that you are absolutely correct Mets. It was not intentional and I don't believe the umpire thought he was making a bad call. Just a fluke play that may never be seen again and it did not affect the outcome of the game. I was just curious what the real ruling should've been. Thanks guys. |
| Mets69 |
Posted - 03/12/2013 : 07:40:37
Here's the definition of a foul ball according to the rules of baseball ...
"A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first
base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul
territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or
over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the
natural ground."
I imagine that the umpire must have been referring to Rule 6.05(i) ...
6.05 A batter is out when—
(i) After hitting or bunting a ball that continues to move over foul territory, he
intentionally deflects the course of the ball in any manner while running to first
base. The ball is dead and no runners may advance.
It seems the key word is "intentionally deflects".
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| F2202 |
Posted - 03/12/2013 : 03:25:11
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
So based on the definitions, and with the assumption that the runner in no way interfered with a fielder attempting to make a play on the ball, I would think the ruling would be foul ball if the umpire judged the fly ball to be foul of the line and striking the batting while he was completely in foul territory.
Definitely a foul ball. The position of the batter-runner would not come into play. Just where the ball was when it hit him.
For instance, if a fielder is standing in fair territory, reaches over the line into foul territory and the ball-in-flight strikes his glove and falls to the ground (into fair or foul territory). Its a foul ball because of where the ball was relative to the line when it was touched.
Foul territory does not protect a runner from interference. However, interference would involve the batter-runner making contact first with a fielder attempted to catch the ball. The contact would have to occur before the foul-fly hit the batter-runner.
Intentionally contacting a foul batted ball with a bat, then the batter-runner is out, if in the umpire's judgement, the ball had a chance of becoming fair (8-4-1d NFHS). |
| AllStar |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 17:15:21
quote:
Originally posted by southpaw dad
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by southpaw dad
No play was being made on the ball. I totally agree with you baldy. The ump called him out.
Did the batter's coach a)ask the umpire to get help from his partner or b) protest?
He did question it, but the ump played it pretty well saying "it was an obscure rule and the situation is so rare that few people knew it". So for all you umpires, that line needs to be in your bag ;-)
The fact that a foul ball hitting a runner is not an out is not very obscure. I assume there was no question that the runner and ball were completely in foul territory. If there was any doubt, then it becomes a judgment call. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 17:07:23
quote:
Originally posted by Mets69
Hypothetically speaking ... could the ball have hit a rock and been deflected back into fair territory?
That's always a possibility, however you can never assume anything on a play. You can't assume a ball will be fair or foul, only what the real outcome is. Once the ball touched the player in foul territory it became a foul ball, regardless what act of God might have occurred had it not hit the player. That's like saying that the wind blew the ball foul, so assuming no wind the ball would have been fair, so it should be a fair ball. |
| Mets69 |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 15:51:10
Hypothetically speaking ... could the ball have hit a rock and been deflected back into fair territory? |
| southpaw dad |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 15:39:39
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by southpaw dad
No play was being made on the ball. I totally agree with you baldy. The ump called him out.
Did the batter's coach a)ask the umpire to get help from his partner or b) protest?
He did question it, but the ump played it pretty well saying "it was an obscure rule and the situation is so rare that few people knew it". So for all you umpires, that line needs to be in your bag ;-) |
| AllStar |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 14:06:49
quote:
Originally posted by southpaw dad
No play was being made on the ball. I totally agree with you baldy. The ump called him out.
Did the batter's coach a)ask the umpire to get help from his partner or b) protest? |
| southpaw dad |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 12:58:23
No play was being made on the ball. I totally agree with you baldy. The ump called him out. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 12:04:19
Interesting. Based on multiple MLB rules, I would believe that is ultimately boils down to umpire judgement relative to fair or foul position of the ball, assuming that no interference occurred.
MLB Rule 6.05(g) states:
6.05
A batter is out when --
(g) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder;
So you can assume that since it clearly states his "fair" ball, then it would exclude a foul ball, therefore the ruling in that case would be foul ball and not batter out.
If you further look at the MLB definitions of fair and foul ball, specifically a fly ball, you see that it is the the umpire's judgment relative to the foul line and foul pole as to whether the ball is in foul or fair territory.
A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.
A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball.
A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.
A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.
So based on the definitions, and with the assumption that the runner in no way interfered with a fielder attempting to make a play on the ball, I would think the ruling would be foul ball if the umpire judged the fly ball to be foul of the line and striking the batting while he was completely in foul territory.
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| baldy87 |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 11:02:20
Just my two-cents. The way it's described above - foul ball - the runner was in foul territory. However, if the runner was running and unaware of where the ball was, and the pitcher or 1B was running over him trying to catch the pop-up, then I'd say interference, and the batter is out. |
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