| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| chollyred |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 13:13:47
Man am I tired of 10U Rec ball. Our local league is terrible. Bad players, bad coaches, and bad parents. Most of the decent players are playing travel ball. While there are a few good kids left, they are overwhelmed with kids that have never played ball before. I'm serious when I say that several on our current team have never played catch before, much less played in real games.
Then the parents! We've had parents that have never played with their kid in their life demanding we put them in the infield. Parents that drop off their kid for practice then show up two hours later. Parents that have yelled at their kids for using another player's bat. We've had parents get into squabbles so bad that the police were called. Real good examples for the kids.
One coach in our division has a kid that is really short. When he comes to bat, the coach makes him squat down to eliminate the strike zone. So low, that the kid couldn't swing a bat to save his life (a really good kid too). He has also put batters in jeopardy by having them stand right on the plate. We finally got the ump to intervene on that one.
Another coach had a kid reach 2nd and threatened to "kick his ..." if he left base trying to steal. Ump didn't say a word.
We're now thinking about a travel team to expose my boy to better competition, better coaches, and little to no parent drama.
He has been invited to tryouts for a travel team this summer, but I'm not sure I can afford it. How can you play travel ball on a strict budget? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bballman |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 12:17:56
Keep this in mind. Much of the situation you are talking about in your original post involves other parents who are not happy with the situation their kids are in at the rec level. It also involves the coaches. Many of these same people are probably considering taking their kid out of the rec league and putting them into travel. Many of the coaches who are currently coaching rec will get tired of the complaints and situation in rec and opt to move to the travel level. So, often times, you will wind up dealing with the same people or type of people in travel that you did in rec. It's just a reality. Over time, some of these people will be weeded out and some of them will grow personally. As the kids get older, the games become more and more relaxed and less drama. However, at the lower ages, it is still pretty crazy.
I don't say lower your expectations, just don't look through rose colored glasses at another situation thinking it will solve all your issues. There are a wide variety of travel teams out there. Some are no better talent wise than a local rec team, some are very good. Much depends on the coaches and what they are trying to put together. Many if not all coaches at the lower ages are dads. Some of those dads are very good coaches and some of them started a travel team just to make sure they get their kid some play time at the position he would like him to play. There are many threads on this board about researching the team that you are interested in playing on. Go back and read some of them. Unfortunately, sometimes even though you've done your research, you may not be happy with where you wind up.
The reason people say that the politics and drama doesn't really change is because every family that moves from rec to travel does so because they think their kid is too good for rec. When they get to travel and compete against other kids who also feel that way, they still might not get what they are looking for. For example, a kid is playing rec ball. Winds up playing outfield. Parents think, "he should be playing shortstop, we're getting out of here and playing on a team where his talent will be appreciated and he can play short". Well, they move to travel and lo and behold, there are a bunch of other very good players and little johnny doesn't get to play short. Parents are still not happy and wind up complaining and causing drama on that team. I think you can see where this is going.
Will the umps be better? Probably, although at the younger ages, it is usually the more inexperienced umps working. As they get more experience, they move up in age groups. So, you won't see a kid out there for the first time ever, but they won't be the best either.
I think all anybody is trying to say is all the problems you are facing will not go away. Some will, some won't, some new ones may come up. If your grandson wants to play at a higher level, there is the potential for that at the travel level. However, part of that will depend on the team you get on and who they play. If he gets on a single A team, and they play other single A teams, it's not going to be a whole lot better. If he can get on a major team, it will be a lot better.
As far as the cost, others have said it - you sacrifice. We spent a lot of money playing baseball and traveling over the years. A LOT. We didn't take a real family vacation for like 8 years. Every family vacation was a baseball tournament we did. Took a week off and went to Panama City or Myrtle Beach or Cooperstown or some other place that was pretty cool. It costs money, even on the teams that don't do a lot of traveling. I would never take those days back. The experience was wonderful. My son is about to graduate from HS. We were looking back on some pictures the other day from the old days and it was very nostalgic. Great times, great memories. My son played for dads until he got to HS. They were great coaches, we had a good team and we were very happy. It still wasn't cheap, but we made the sacrifice and I feel like it was worth it. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 23:11:44
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
In the know: Post of the decade. Awesome!
Yup.... |
| rippit |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 12:42:01
In the know: Post of the decade. Awesome! |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 10:53:06
chollyred,
I don't really think that you should "lower" your expectations, I think what most are saying is that they should be more realistic. Many of us that have been on this path for a long time see some warning signs in your previous posts and I believe that the advice given is meant to save you some disappointment.
So far you've been quite critical of umpires, fans, teammates, etc., and appear under the impression that these same issues don't exist in travel ball. They do.
Also, you're posting game stats for your grandson. You'll need to get some thicker skin and understanding that single games don't and shouldn't be the barometer for you player's stock on his team. Likewise for critiquing an umpire's single game. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
At your grandson's age, IMHO, the most important things travel ball can provide him are an advanced platform for developing any skills he has to help prepare him for playing at the next level. That next level could be A level travel, AA or AAA, major, high school, college? Pretty much as far as his abilities and desire want to take him. Additionally, it needs to be fun. If it isn't, he will lose the desire. Grandparents pose an additional and interesting dynamic. I can't tell you have many grandparents know or have asked me for their grandkids stats (in my coaching days). I've seen grandparents put more pressure on the kids than the actual parents. Not saying that you do, but some of your comments are probably worth you re-reading and taking this into consideration to see how much pressure you're inadvertently putting on the kid. Are you hanging on his every at-bat? Does every walk given up make your heart sink?
I think that everyone offering support and advice recognize that you have your grandson's best interests at heart, but we also recognize some of the key warning signs that we've seen other parents/grandparents serious heartburn in transitioning from Rec to All-Star thru the various stages of travel ball.
Please continue to ask questions here. There are a wealth of posters here who have made some great and terrible decisions along the way who may be able to minimize the amount of regrets you end up having. I don't think there's a single mom, dad or coach here who doesn't have at least a dozen things they would have done differently looking back. Most are willing to share their experience. Not all are the same, and what works for one didn't work for another, but at least you can see the pro's and con's along the way and hope for the best outcome for your grandson. |
| nastycurve |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 10:26:46
Cholly, heres a thought... Why not just form a travel squad? Take the three or four best that you have and are on board, talk to some of the other coaches in the park and get their 3-4 best, end up with 10-12 players and go from there. The best way to get what you want might be to create it. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 08:55:16
Here might be a good option if proximity allows it. Take him over to play at Chastain Park. They play league but their all-star teams play travel tournaments at the end of the season. Theat would give you a good transition into travel and could be less costly than a full season of travel. They typically have well coached all-star teams.
Just a thought.
I know there are some others on here that have done that. Maybe they can chime in. |
| chollyred |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 07:55:35
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by chollyred
The field ump told me that they're trying to get him ready for Travel Ball. I told him Travel Ball would eat this guy up.
What if he improves with experience? Or do you expect umps to be perfect the first time they get behind the plate?
Don't expect perfect strike zones in travel ball either. Shoot, I can't figure it out when I'm watching some Braves games.
You might want to temper your expectations or Travel Ball may eat you up as well. It did me for a year or two. Then I woke up and realized that it's not life or death, do your best for your son, then let him take advantage (or not) of the opportunity and learn from every experience, bad and good.
No, I don't expect the umps to be perfect even at the pro level. But I would expect them to work their way up as they gain experience. Gee, kinda like I did on my job. When a call is questioned, I would never expect an umpire to tell a coach "Well, I don't know the rule about that." I try to remind that kids that sometimes you win bad calls, sometime you lose them, but that it seems to even out over the course of a season.
As far as Travls Ball, yes, I am naive. That's why I came here. However, most of the advice I've gotten here is to lower my expectations. I was expecting that with the financial outlay required, there would be better players, better officiating, and parents more knowlegeable about the game. I'm definitely re-thinking about making the committment. Ultimately, It will be my grandson's decision whether he wants to try out or not. If he decides to find another Rec league, that'll be fine with me. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 05/06/2012 : 10:30:04
quote:
Originally posted by chollyred
The field ump told me that they're trying to get him ready for Travel Ball. I told him Travel Ball would eat this guy up.
What if he improves with experience? Or do you expect umps to be perfect the first time they get behind the plate?
Don't expect perfect strike zones in travel ball either. Shoot, I can't figure it out when I'm watching some Braves games.
You might want to temper your expectations or Travel Ball may eat you up as well. It did me for a year or two. Then I woke up and realized that it's not life or death, do your best for your son, then let him take advantage (or not) of the opportunity and learn from every experience, bad and good. |
| chollyred |
Posted - 05/05/2012 : 21:34:01
Thanks Mike.
They won 5-4 against a bitter rival in a very exciting game. My grandson pitched the first 3 innings with 7 Ks and 0 walks. Played the last 2 innings at 3rd and 1st and had good putouts there. Two walks at the plate.
Bad day with officiating. We had a rookie ump behind the plate that was all over the place with his strike zone and made some crucial errors that should have been overturned. The field ump told me that they're trying to get him ready for Travel Ball. I told him Travel Ball would eat this guy up. |
| Mad1 |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 18:57:36
Chollyred,
There are tourneys in hampton and Monroe two weeks from tomorrow. Next weekend is slack because of mothers day. Anyway, we play at 2:30 and 4:20 tomorrow. If ya get a chance there will be games all day through 8pm and all day Sunday. Take Care and good luck tomorrow. |
| chollyred |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 14:37:53
quote:
Originally posted by Mad1
Chollyred,
If youve got time this w/e and want to see some ball, we are playing a 10 AA tourney at heritage Park in McDonough and there are a couple of teams from your area in it. Ours is in it, and would be glad to have you up. No motives here, just a chance for you and your grandson to take a look at what you would be getting into and a chance to answer any question you might have about playing tournament ball, and take a look at the environment. Our team is LG Mayhem , just ask for Mike if ya get a chance.
Mike, Thanks for the invite. Unfortunately, we have a game at 10:00 in Conyers. Anywhere close one of the next weekends? I see there's a tournament in Conyers the next week. I'd really like the opportunity for him to see what's different in travel ball and if he wants to pursue it.
|
| Mad1 |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 11:25:28
Chollyred,
If youve got time this w/e and want to see some ball, we are playing a 10 AA tourney at heritage Park in McDonough and there are a couple of teams from your area in it. Ours is in it, and would be glad to have you up. No motives here, just a chance for you and your grandson to take a look at what you would be getting into and a chance to answer any question you might have about playing tournament ball, and take a look at the environment. Our team is LG Mayhem , just ask for Mike if ya get a chance. |
| LLH |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 10:31:06
In that area you should be able to find a team that would cost $500 or less per season. Then you will have your out of pocket expenses, gate fees, travel, gas etc..
There are some good teams in that area and if you find a team that plays in USSSA tournaments in loganville and Monroe you will be close to home. At that age there is plenty time of time to play in East Cobb or for an expensive team.
Get your feet wet close to home at an affordable price!
|
| chollyred |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 07:34:33
quote:
Originally posted by Mad1
Chollyred, what age group age we talking about? Northside or Southside?
Eastside. Out between Conyers, Covington, Loganville area. |
| Mad1 |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 14:00:45
Chollyred, what age group age we talking about? Northside or Southside? |
| ramman999 |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:11:56
#1 - what does your grandson want? Does he enjoy being the big fish in a small pond? Right now he probably gets to play prime positions and bat up in the order, is he willing to sacrifice that for the competition, as well as leave friends he currently may play with?
#2 - are you willing to invest the time? Consider travel ball a full time job, depending on the team/organization/age group - 2-3 practices a week - tournaments every other weekend, professional instruction, private instruction, self guided practice time. If he has siblings, or other people that will be stranded at the ballpark all weekend, are they cool with that?
#3 - are you willing to pay for the pain? A lot of times you get what you pay for, and quite a few of us have found over the years that sometimes the value and the price tag don't match - just because you pay more doesn't mean you get better. Outside of baseball team costs, equipment costs, instruction costs, lessons, etc., there are weekend costs - gas, windshield time, hotel rooms, food, drinks, all gets expensive - not to the levels of travel hockey, but enough to make you think about packing lunches and cutting back on other bills.
#4 - are you ready to deal with the drama? Unless there is some utopian team out there, there is always some sort of drama when you are talking competition - parents are in it for only their kids, coaches play favorites, more backstabbing than most can take or stomach - it is really eye opening. Not saying every team/organization is like that, but jealousy brings out the drama. When your player is competing for playing time with another player for the same position/batting order spot/ pitching spot there is plenty of 2nd guessing and any hint of jealousy can fester and grow until it blows up.
Just some things to consider..
Travel ball is a huge commitment for everyone, not just him - it becomes your social life, and can consume you so keep perspective like splitter said - |
| spliter |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 09:35:40
Remember the grass grows greener over the septic tank. I like signed paperwork to curb bad behavior (cussing) around kids, cost, quitting, and conduct at games/practice. Affordabilty and travel ball forget it. I budget 8k -10k per kid. This is summer(1800 fee),fall (300), hotels, lessons, WS (2500 for the week), gas, equipment(600 n bats per yr. (practice,winter,& game bats)) etc.,etc., The big key find a team that fits your kids talent level and desire. |
| chollyred |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 08:12:50
Thanks for the replies and "grounding". As I'm currently one of the coaches, I'm one of the targets of "the parents". While looking around at travel teams, most I see online have some sort of player/parent contract that is supposed to help curb some of these issues. I was assuming that because travel ball parents are more familiar with the game and the "behind the scenes" activities that there'd be more support and less other. Maybe I'm deluding myself.
Driving distances to play is not an issue. I play ALTA tennis (when we don't have baseball games) and will often drive 30-40 miles for a match.
I'm really hoping to find an affordable team that will allow my grandson to continue to grow as a player. I'll gladly step back and let more experienced coaches manage the team while I sit on the side cheering him on. If travel ball is not in the cards, we'll definitely be looking into a Rec league in another area.
You all have helped me out with some questions when searching for team tryouts.
Thanks again,
Chollyred out! |
| justletemplay |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 17:01:04
Well, there will almost be drama......maybe more in travel ball. We have played since my son was 11. You could look at another rec program, different park. there was less drama with that.....for us any way. I think it was we lived in totally different parts of town. Not as close as our "neighborhood" park. But then we knew fewer folks. The drama always comes from the parents who have an opinion about everything, yet volunteer for little and certainly not committed to the responsibility and the sh&& the coaches have to hear and put up with. Really, dogging a volunteer dad...............
We have never paid more than 1200$ for travel ball. We play 2 or 3 tournaments per month, little out of town travel, little bling, simple uniforms. We have always been on teams where development super-ceded wins. The rosters are around 11/12. At the older levels more like 15/16 b/c the need for pitching on long weekends. No picking up other players after the season starts except for injury, a player moves, or quits. Top tier teams claim big bucks. This year we are on a team that has been in the top 4 in most tournaments (over the last 3 years) and has been in the top ten in USSSA. That really depends on how many of those USSSA tournies you play in. This is the 1st year there for my son. He's having fun, wins some, losses some, lots of reps, lots of good ball to watch from a position and, on occasion, from the bench. The entire focus is on development. if you work hard at the way the game should be played then good things happen.........eventually.
Possibly not this season. Just keep getting better, keep working on athleticism and keep throwing. ECobb demands big bucks b/c you wear their logo, but the development is no better or worse there than anywhere else. Don't drink the kool-aide. Try and make a decision not based on hype, promises, smoke and mirrors. The top teams are that for a reason. They see the best players on other teams and make them offers. The next season some go, some don't.
Have fun and let them have fun.
|
| ChinMusic |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 15:24:48
Many families and teams offset and/or reduce costs through fundraising and/or sponsorship. Good luck on your move to travel ball!!
|
| Gus Ball Still Wins |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 15:24:31
There are all kinds of teams out there, cost wise. At 10U you will have plenty of options, depending on where you live. Most all of them allow monthly payments over several months. That is the only way I can afford it. We were able to spread the cost monthly from September to April. That will probably vary from team to team.
I think you will be able to escape most of what you outlined in your post by leaving rec ball. (Except parent drama  ) But, travel has its own set of issues, most of which I have found that I can deal with in the right situation/ team.
If your son has the athletic ability and baseball aptitude he will appreciate the difference between rec and travel.
Just my 2 cents based on my limited experience. Hope things go well for you. |
| Mad1 |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 15:12:09
Find sponsors for the team. Each of our kids find sponsors for the team for the money it takes to play the season. The coaches usually find team sponsors to reduce the parental amount. Our coaches make a budget and tell the parents what each family is responsible for, when its due and where the money goes. A few just write checks, but most parents bring sponsorship checks to cover their amount. That money covers cage time, uniforms (3), equipment bags or equipment, and tournament costs. There is travel cost to consider, depending on your scheduling to think of too. If we do something extra, it is discussed and fundraisers are done or parents agree before hand. Works well for our team. |
| gameday |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 15:11:43
First of all, don't think that there is not any drama in travel ball or you will be disappointed greatly. It is expensive, however, most teams offer payment plans summer through winter to help ease the burden. Most of the families I know (including my own) don't have a ton of money, but we all seem to find a way to make it work. It's worth it!
Best of luck |
| WestCoastGuru |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 15:05:10
If you're hoping to escape the parent drama by transitioning to travel ball....well, you are in for a rude awakening!!! |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 14:48:30
quote:
Originally posted by chollyred
Man am I tired of 10U Rec ball. Our local league is terrible. Bad players, bad coaches, and bad parents. Most of the decent players are playing travel ball. While there are a few good kids left, they are overwhelmed with kids that have never played ball before. I'm serious when I say that several on our current team have never played catch before, much less played in real games.
Then the parents! We've had parents that have never played with their kid in their life demanding we put them in the infield. Parents that drop off their kid for practice then show up two hours later. Parents that have yelled at their kids for using another player's bat. We've had parents get into squabbles so bad that the police were called. Real good examples for the kids.
One coach in our division has a kid that is really short. When he comes to bat, the coach makes him squat down to eliminate the strike zone. So low, that the kid couldn't swing a bat to save his life (a really good kid too). He has also put batters in jeopardy by having them stand right on the plate. We finally got the ump to intervene on that one.
Another coach had a kid reach 2nd and threatened to "kick his ..." if he left base trying to steal. Ump didn't say a word.
We're now thinking about a travel team to expose my boy to better competition, better coaches, and little to no parent drama.
He has been invited to tryouts for a travel team this summer, but I'm not sure I can afford it. How can you play travel ball on a strict budget?
Four comments.
First, there are other Rec leagues. If cost of travel is too big a challenge, then consider shopping for another rec park. If your response is that you don't want to drive that far to play rec ball, then stop now and don't ever join a travel team. If a drive is a deterrent, you aren't cut out for it.
Second, to the portion highlighted in red above. Drama's everywhere. Some places worse than others. So don't blindly go in thinking that the grass is green in this respect on the travel side of the fence. You're only kidding yourself if you believe this.
Third, like anything else in life, you have to figure out what you can afford, then limit your options within that. There are many options around, some more expensive than others. A lot of teams do a significant amount of fundraising and there ends up being little to no cost out of pocket at the end. Others prefer NOT to go that route and end up shelling out the full fare. Ask a lot of questions as you begin your hunt, but know your limit and don't shop outside of that. It may not allow you to choose your most preferred option, but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Don't get in over your head where the stress of the expense causes additional headaches.
Finally, you provided a whole lot of color commentary before getting to your question. Frankly, many might consider that (and perhaps you) to be some of the drama that you claim you're sick of. It would have sufficed to say that you aren't satisfied with the skill and behavior of the rec league and are looking for other affordable options. I only raise this as a warning flag that you don't let yourself become what you're trying to escape. It's real easy to get sucked into that abyss when it surrounds you.
Good luck. |
|
|
