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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 09:51:13
I watched about a dozen games at the Slugfest over the weekend and saw several players using bats that were not legal. I'm not talking about bats that there were suspicions of tampering. I'm specifically talking about previous year models without the USSSA stamp (big barrel, not small barrel) and BESR -3 bats instead of BBCOR. I also overheard coaches who recognized the opposing teams were using a non-compliant bat but chose to just let it go. To be clear, I NEVER heard any coach indicate that he was aware that any of HIS players were knowingly using a non-compliant bat. I'm not accusing any teams of knowingly cheating. I really think that there is still a bit of ignorance on a lot of peoples part with respect to what is legal and what is not. In the case of Triple Crown, their penalties defer to NFHS when using a non-compliant bat which state that as soon as player steps into the box, the batter is considered to have used the illegal bat (doesn't have to see a pitch) with the penalty of the batter being ruled "out" and all runners returning to their base occupied at the start of the at-bat.
In the case of one game, protesting would VERY likely have changed the final outcome of the game which one team was eliminated and would probably not have been had they protested the use of the bat.
So what's everyone's take on this? As I mentioned, I saw several coaches simply choose not to take a bat out of an opposing player's hands. Certainly their prerogative, but definitely shifts advantage to kids using bats hotter than others. Is everyone going to simply overlook the new restrictions and play-on, regardless of what bats are being used? Real curious to what others saw this weekend and what some coaches think about the matter.
Before everyone piles on about whether they think the bats are really any different with or without the new stamp, this is not the intent of this question. I don't really care if you think the change was done for money, if there is any difference between last year/this year models, etc. I think that topic has been beaten to death. I also know that some manufacturers didn't change paint schemes on their bats between last year's models and the new bpf 1.15 stamped model. I'm not including those in my observations. I saw bats that were 2-3 years old and there's no question that they were not legal. Both non-bpf 1.15 and BESR, both of which would be illegal for the Slugfest.
So what are coaches going to do this year and is this rule change really going to make any difference in what players swing? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bkball |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 13:27:09
I agree. I hope they make a real "change" soon. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 18:59:31
quote:
Originally posted by bkball
I don't have a problem with a kid having an old -3 BESR or unstamped bat in his bag to use in the cage or BP but don't use it in the game. All paint jobs for the new stamped and new BBCOR bats should have been changed so they could easily be identified by umps, coaches and kids. There should have been "NO" grand fathered bats allowed. If it was not a 2012 bat it should not be legal. This would have made it all easier for everyone.
They shouldn't have made a "change" without changing anything.....The reason bat companies can stamp and sell off their old stock is the BATS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!!! |
| bkball |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 08:22:03
I don't have a problem with a kid having an old -3 BESR or unstamped bat in his bag to use in the cage or BP but don't use it in the game. All paint jobs for the new stamped and new BBCOR bats should have been changed so they could easily be identified by umps, coaches and kids. There should have been "NO" grand fathered bats allowed. If it was not a 2012 bat it should not be legal. This would have made it all easier for everyone. |
| 4bagger |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 17:33:20
And a side effect of all this is the kid with a legal bat who works on his hitting and hits a nice bomb is suspected, by some, of using a shaved or illegal bat.
No one is really winning with this bat issue. Either you are cheating and therefore losing OR you are doing it the right way and are being suspected of cheating.
Won't ever happen in a million years but go back to wood at all ages.................. |
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 14:09:37
Wow, And all that coming from a guy that uses ChinMusic as his handle. Sounds like a real sportsman. Just kidding and I agree with you. |
| ChinMusic |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 11:31:36
Wow, I can't believe this thread is still cookin'. Cheaters exist in most sports at most levels - always have and always will.
Coaches - if you know you have players that use illegal bats (or even allow them in your dugout), then shame on you. Do the right thing and fix it!!
Players - if you use an illegal bat (or even bring one in the dugout), then shame on you. Do the right thing and fix it!!
Parents - if you know you have players that use illegal bats (or even allow them in your dugout), then shame on you. Do the right thing and fix it!!
This thread should be locked
|
| bkball |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 11:21:20
The real problem is it doesn't matter if a bat is 10 years old or 2 years old. All of these bats would meet the new standard (I am not talking BBCOR Standard) but 14 and under standard -5 and below. Shaving bats is another story. All bats other than BBCOR will inflate power to some degree and are a danger to players. If you challenge a bat you get ridiculed by parents from the opposing team. Go to wood or BBCOR and make it all safer and easier for everyone. |
| 22202 |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 10:29:20
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
You pop off the end cap and use a lathe? to scrape/shave the interior wall down making the barrel thinner. That way it was more trampoline effect causing the ball to jumP off the bat with crazy speed. It's lethal. Dont do it.
Yes. I am a mom. Google is a great tool. Lol.
Just my $0.02 worth but the problem I have with the rule is there doesn't seem to be ANY enforcement other than looking for the stamp. In my opinion if you are authorized to be a TD it should be prerequisite that you have some type of measuring device to do a quick scan of a questioned bat for shaving. The middle of the road cost for a scan tool is about $1200. Here is an example. http://www.checkline.com/metal_thickness_gauges/TI-25M
If bat companies are simply stamping old inventory to sell off inventory than that is on them and the sanctioning bodies such as USSSA or TC should just ban those bats to take the question of "legality" out of it. Also it is not just aluminum bats, the composite bats can be compromised as well. I bought my sons bat from an online retailer and it came wrapped in plastic and I have no idea what was done to it before I received it. How do I know? Am I giving my son an illegal bat? A simple scan at a tournament would answer that question. Are baseball games going to turn into a "tech inspection" to make sure everyone is using a legal bat? My point is that if there is a rule that is forcing people to buy/use certain types of bats than there should be a way to inspect that bat at every tournament where that rule is applied. And I used the word applied instead of enforced because from the sounds of it at even the largest tournament in country there was no way to tell other than if it had a painted stamp, and even then sometimes that wasn't looked at.
BTW- Happy Easter everyone! |
| Peanutsr |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:51:51
And there are companies that will sell you any of the new bats, with the U-Trip emblem on them, that have been shaved. Without proper testing equipment you can not tell the difference between them and a regular bat. |
| rippit |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:27:29
You pop off the end cap and use a lathe? to scrape/shave the interior wall down making the barrel thinner. That way it was more trampoline effect causing the ball to jumP off the bat with crazy speed. It's lethal. Dont do it.
Yes. I am a mom. Google is a great tool. Lol. |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 00:31:46
Hey yall -- help out Dan pls by explaining what in heck is a "shaved bat " and if this is a aftermarket revisement how is it done anyways ?
Never heard of such thing and Im older than the trees in your yards  |
| O-fer |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 22:59:58
Wow these are some great opinions....there are sooo many incredibly talented baseball players in this area and I know that most of them work extremely hard and that should be commended and they should be proud of the hard work and long hours they put in !! But when you see a kid fooled by an off speed pitch - his weight over his front leg and he flicks his wrists and the center fielder catches the ball with his back on the fence 300 feet away something is alittle strange. Chipper jones has a hard time doing that and he is pretty good - of course now he is like 94 years old and probably can't hit it much past 300 feet. It's the same concern that we all have ..... Please lord just don't let somebody get hurt with some bat that has been tampered with. I actually love the idea of everyone using BBCOR bats at all ages. The College game has changed dramatically and in my opinion for the best. Then all those kids who bust their butts and work extremely hard will reap the benefits of their hard work - just as they should. |
| outlaweagle |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 22:32:47
To answer the orignal question, NOTHING. Most players/coaches/parents are either breaking or skirting around the rules. If there is any doubt in your mind whatsoever that the bat you are using is legal(stamp or no stamp), than most likely it is not. Believe me it will catch up to these players, it is only a matter of time. I have seen it happen already as I watched the big 6 foot kids continue to swing the 10 and 8 drop bats that have been rolled and shaved through age 14. Once they hit the high school field (and that's if they make it that far) they are exposed. |
| baseballpapa |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 21:35:01
I find it hard to believe that anyone for any reason would intentionally shave a bat knowing that a kid could get seriously hurt. Watching the Bandits and the other great teams in this age group I admit that I have seen them do things that I would have not thought possible even going back just a few years. The training and the resources these kids have is the best anyone can imagine and I know that many of these players put in countless hours in an attempt to be the best that they can be and I want to believe that it is the resources and the work that is paying off and not a altered bat but what do I know.
After reading all the posts I am not even sure that the bat my 13U grandson is hitting with is legal. It came from JustBats and has the stamp saying it is legal and I know that nothing has been altered but it is hot and in his hands and in his teammates hands could be considered dangerous. I agree with many of the other posts and would not be mad if all age groups went to wood or bbcor. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 20:48:03
quote:
Originally posted by bulldogbaseball100
I think the subject has been hijacked because of the imminent danger witnessed by many at the hands of... and let's call it what it is... SHAVED BATS. Our kids are in danger of serious injury. It's not whining, it's concerned dads knowing what they see. I could not believe how the ball was flying off some bats at the recent SNIT. Like "o-Fer" posted earlier, the grounders were so hard the infielders didn't even have time to react. There were top teams where most of the team all used the same bat... despite using thier own bat in warm ups. The stamp was part of a well intended "keep the game safer" strategy and it apppears that it has been rendered moot. BMoser and Papa, you guys have seen more baseball than most, what is your opinion on the shaved bat concern. Do you have the same suspicions? Or do you think we are off base? What are your opinions on Shaved Bats?
Shaved bats are illegal, plain and simple. But because you see a kid warm up with one bat and have another as his gamer doesn't mean the bat is shaved. My sons warm up with a heavier bat in the cage. My oldest has always swung a wood bat (since he was 12) in cage and during practice, then use his alloy bat during games. My middle son warms up with one of his older brothers old BESR -3 bats and then uses his -5 in games. Neither has ever used a shaved bat. My middle son's team now mostly swing the same bat during games. When I say "same bat", I don't mean that they are sharing 1 bat, but rather there are 5 or 6 kids all with their own of the same brand/model in varying sizes. There are one or two that will borrow it for an occasional AB, so it might appear that 8 or 9 kids are all swinging the same bat, but they are not. Two of our better hitters happen to use that bat, so all the other kids wanted it. Truthfully, the same two hitters are the only kids with HR's on the team. The other players didn't suddenly gain Popeye strength when they switched to the other bat. Do they have more confidence in their ability because of the bat, maybe, but they aren't seeing any significantly different results with power or average as a result.
As I stated earlier. The people who have chosen to cheat have now cast a suspicion on every good hitter who plays. Much like the steroid era where any player having a good season "must be on the juice", every youth player today who hits well "must have a shaved bat". It simply isn't true and I would suspect that if you look back at these same kids who are great hitters today, 90% of them were the same great hitters 5 years ago.
I'm not ignorant and know that some are using shaved bats, but the innuendo is that predominantly all good hitters today are so because they're using shaved bats. I don't believe that is the case and I certainly hope that those cheating out there are in the minority. |
| rippit |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 16:12:38
Golf balls aren't hit in the direction of children. Hopefully?! |
| bulldogbaseball100 |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 15:24:44
I think the subject has been hijacked because of the imminent danger witnessed by many at the hands of... and let's call it what it is... SHAVED BATS. Our kids are in danger of serious injury. It's not whining, it's concerned dads knowing what they see. I could not believe how the ball was flying off some bats at the recent SNIT. Like "o-Fer" posted earlier, the grounders were so hard the infielders didn't even have time to react. There were top teams where most of the team all used the same bat... despite using thier own bat in warm ups. The stamp was part of a well intended "keep the game safer" strategy and it apppears that it has been rendered moot. BMoser and Papa, you guys have seen more baseball than most, what is your opinion on the shaved bat concern. Do you have the same suspicions? Or do you think we are off base? What are your opinions on Shaved Bats? |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 14:09:07
quote:
Originally posted by 3BCoach
quote:
Originally posted by TAZ980002
Please quit the whining about bats. I've personally never been associated with a player or parent who used an illegal bat. I've heard plenty of accusations towards others WITHOUT a single ounce of proof though.
I will issue this challenge to all of you: if you ever suspect one of my sons of using an illegal bat, approach me with a $100 bill in your hand and ask to inspect his bat. IF it turns out to be illegal, I will pay you $200. If NOT, I get to keep your $100. Otherwise, keep the drama to a minimum and let these kids play ball.
While it's true that some are whining about the bats as you put it, you are just one person. I'm sure your child is using a legal bat, so passing around $100 bills is a little extreme.
I think after reading hundreds of posts from you guys asking about how this bat performs, how hot that bat is etc., that many are way too fixated on how the BAT performs relative to how their PLAYER performs. So now it seeIms that some are whining.
If you want an edge, hire a professional hitting coach and invest in some speed and agility classes. Focus on proper nutrition, rest, grades and try to keep it all in perspective.
Agree 100%. I don't know if anyone has actually accused my son of using an illegal bat or not but I'm 100% sure he has not use one. That's why I'm confident in offering money to prove it. I do take him to a professional hitting coach and I also work with him several times a week.
You are right that too many are fixated on the performance of the bat when the batter has a lot more to do with the results. A week ago or so I took my 13 y/o to a high school field where he hit a bucket of balls. He used a 32" wood bat, a 32" BBCOR bat and his BPF 1.15 drop 5 Easton (32" also). He hit balls that traveled almost the exact same distance with each bat. The difference was when he missed the sweet spot with the BBCOR and wood bats, the balls went significantly shorter. Bottom line to me is that the BPF 1.15 bats may be more forgiving but don't offer an appreciable difference in distance. Is that any different than using more forgiving clubs in golf ? Sorry, had to throw in the golf analogy - that Masters was awesome !! Way to go Bubba. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 13:13:40
quote:
Originally posted by TAZ980002
Please quit the whining about bats. I've personally never been associated with a player or parent who used an illegal bat. I've heard plenty of accusations towards others WITHOUT a single ounce of proof though.
I will issue this challenge to all of you: if you ever suspect one of my sons of using an illegal bat, approach me with a $100 bill in your hand and ask to inspect his bat. IF it turns out to be illegal, I will pay you $200. If NOT, I get to keep your $100. Otherwise, keep the drama to a minimum and let these kids play ball.
The original question and intent of this thread has been completely hijacked with talk about doctored bats. That was never the intent.
The question was simple and was timely since the discussion began following the first couple of spring tourneys of the season and was really focused on what was happening with respect to enforcing the new standards of bats. Simply, if the bat didn't have the new USSSA stamp or BBCOR stamp, what was being done.
Whether a bat is stamped or not, doctoring bats in any way is wrong, however I believe that all will agree it is being done and there is simply nothing happening at a local level to prevent it today. I will also say that any adult who doctors a bat in any way for their minor child playing any level of baseball is a loser. They will always be one and that is also something that can't be prevented or fixed. Unlike you, I do know (although not personally associated with the person) someone who did use a doctored bat each of the last two seasons. The child willingly shared that information and the bat with teammates at Cooperstown last season. I have no respect for that family and will never allow myself to become associated with them in any way. So we have to live in this reality and it forces you to feel compelled to offer up $200 to legitimize your son's bats. That's a sad reality; not of you personally, but of the fact that everyone who hits a ball well feels it's necessary to defend themselves because the presumption is that they are guilty of tampering with bats, even in the absence of any proof. It is because of people like the aforementioned family that this sentiment exists.
But my real question was more about the new stamps required on bats and if it was being enforced. It would appear from all the responses that most saw what I did. Little to no enforcement and very few challenges from coaches if they suspected a bat was non-compliant to the new marking requirements. It also seems that there was a lot of inconsistency in how it was enforced when a bat was called into question.
Hopefully this will sort itself out over time. It seems to be better now than in late February/early March, so that's promising.
As to the losers who have, do and will continue to doctor bats, karma has a way of finding you and she can be a real ______! |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 12:37:18
My concern is when someone hits a come backer with a legal bat that injures someone, and the bat used gets questioned. That could turn into a riot. Could you blame a parent for over-reacting if someone tells them the bat that just hurt thier kid may not be legal?
My son hit a "pitcher" during 8U all stars, and still talks about it. I would hate for him to hit someone now. He only uses stamped bats (-5 USSSA or -3 BBCOR). If he ever hit someone and was then accused of using an illegal bat, I think it would affect the rest of his days in baseball. |
| 3BCoach |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 12:18:59
quote:
Originally posted by TAZ980002
Please quit the whining about bats. I've personally never been associated with a player or parent who used an illegal bat. I've heard plenty of accusations towards others WITHOUT a single ounce of proof though.
I will issue this challenge to all of you: if you ever suspect one of my sons of using an illegal bat, approach me with a $100 bill in your hand and ask to inspect his bat. IF it turns out to be illegal, I will pay you $200. If NOT, I get to keep your $100. Otherwise, keep the drama to a minimum and let these kids play ball.
While it's true that some are whining about the bats as you put it, you are just one person. I'm sure your child is using a legal bat, so passing around $100 bills is a little extreme.
I think after reading hundreds of posts from you guys asking about how this bat performs, how hot that bat is etc., that many are way too fixated on how the BAT performs relative to how their PLAYER performs. So now it seems that some are whining.
If you want an edge, hire a professional hitting coach and invest in some speed and agility classes. Focus on proper nutrition, rest, grades and try to keep it all in perspective. |
| 3BCoach |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 12:08:27
quote:
Originally posted by O-fer
I know everyone has an opinion but here is my take....I don't care if the bat has a stamp or is engraved or is marked w/ a Sharpie. You can take that "legal" bat and alter it so that it's dangerous. I watched a 13u team in a game last weekend in a TC event hit 5 hrs 2 that were half way up the pine trees - 6 or 7 doubles in both gaps that bounced the fence - 1 triple that hit the top of the fence and 3 foul balls that cleared the fence. Ok i know they hit well but how bout the ground balls that got through the infield before the kids could react. Not 1 huge post puberty kid with a beard but an entire team of kids. The fence was 290 and 8 ft high....and oh yeh did I mention the entire team hit the same 2 bats and they both had the stamp on them (one kid did hit a different combat).......I don't know the people and boy I don't want to question anybody or their motives but boy oh boy those things are strange. I have watched a ton of baseball the last few years including the Bandits multiple times and every other elite team from the southeast and i have never seen anything like that. The entire reason I bring this up is because there is nothing that can be done except use a measuring tool that nobody is ever gonna supply. How do we as the baseball community police illegally altering "legal" bats. Just curious as to people opinions ....
Long time lurker...first time poster.
To answer your question, I don't think we can. Tony V. just posted something similar about the Easton bats and basically said this thing is getting a little out of control.
Here's my take as a coach on a 14u team. We started making our boys use BBCOR last fall. Used them no matter what. Only lost one game and it wasn't the bat's fault.
Our approach to each game has nothing to do with who is using what bat. We carry 11 guys. All 11 are capable of hitting a ball over 300' with last year's bats. None have hit anything over 300' with a BBCOR bat. We've only seen 1 homer this spring and it was by a 13 year old on a team playing up in a 14u tournament using a questionable bat. Doesn't matter though because we beat that team by 14 runs.
Our approach is to pitch strategically, play error free defense, hit line drives with the same kind of bat they'll use on their 9th grade or JV teams in 2013 and run the bases aggressively. We aren't going to waste our time worrying about what some coach obviously without a clue regarding the big picture is doing or not doing over on their side of the field. We are concerned with the safety issue though, but that safety issue was an issue last year on a smaller field so it is what it is.
God help the coach and parents of the kid that is using an illegal bat and hurts one of our kids though.
What I don't see here is the perspective of some of the top 14U teams in GA. I know we've played a couple of good teams from FL in FL and noticed half the team still using questionable bats. I'm curious about what the 643, ECB and Roadrunners are using. Just curious. If they too are NOT using BBCOR from top to bottom at 14U, why?
As for the younger age groups, the fields were already too small for the bats of the past, so a switch to BBCOR across the board would save some money on baseballs lost in the woods.
How about this solution: all TD's invest in BBCOR bats in varying lengths to be used by BOTH teams in a game. Practice with what you want to practice with, but come game time everybody is swinging the same bat provided by that tournament. A guy I know once told me, "it's not the arrow, it's the indian". This would certainly level the playing field so to speak and the best team on that day will win without any jibber jabber about bats.
All of our parents know and understand the new bat regulations and all are in agreement that we as coaches are doing the best thing for their player. I really don't understand why this isn't the norm especially by 14U. You didn't just fall out of bed yesterday and decide to have your son play baseball. If you are posting here, you know the deal.
I understand that not all boys grow at the same pace. I used to be one. But I am telling you as a coach and a parent myself, that if you have a big 11, 12 or 13 year old, you are doing him a huge disservice by allowing him to keep swinging a -10 juiced up bat. Teach him the proper way to hit with a BBCOR or wood bat and in the end he will be SO MUCH better off. What do you really want? 20 homers a season now or a .400+ avg. in high school because he didn't go through the shock of finding out he never really learned how to HIT?
While on that topic, I am familiar with another team in our area who has some smaller 14 year olds and their coach also requires that they ALL use BBCOR no matter what. They don't win as much, but they'll all be ready for HS tryouts next January. I respect that about that coach and I tell him every chance I get.
My wish is for every youth baseball coach to wise up and be a leader as well as someone your players can trust and respect. Otherwise, step out. Hire a coach for your team if you have to, but PLEASE look at the big picture.
Thanks for listening. |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 11:33:37
Please quit the whining about bats. I've personally never been associated with a player or parent who used an illegal bat. I've heard plenty of accusations towards others WITHOUT a single ounce of proof though.
I will issue this challenge to all of you: if you ever suspect one of my sons of using an illegal bat, approach me with a $100 bill in your hand and ask to inspect his bat. IF it turns out to be illegal, I will pay you $200. If NOT, I get to keep your $100. Otherwise, keep the drama to a minimum and let these kids play ball. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 11:26:37
rippit,
1. No, I'm not Coach Mark
2. I don't work for Easton
3. Don't think I made an "attack". Merely asking what difference does it make as to how the marking is affixed to the bat so long as it is an acceptable method (which I believe USSSA has approved both screened and etched) and that the bat actually complies with the standard. I was merely questioning you as to whether you were assuming that etched meant non-compliant.
I think you question has been answered to why the screening process didn't happen with Easton bats. Some bats were produced prior to the standard or logo was available, but since the bats complied with the standard, they allowed a post production marker to be applied. My guess (it's a guess since I don't work for Easton) is that all new bats being produced likely have the screened logo and not etching.
To your point and the one I made in my previous post, I'm sure that many of the bats ARE the same bats as last season (and even several years back) and likely meet the bpf 1.15 standard today as much as they did last season before the standard was enacted.
As to the original posting I made, the specific question was regarding players using properly marked (therefore compliant) bats in tournament games vs. kids using non-compliant bats (not properly logo'd with USSSA thumbprint or using BESR vs. BBCOR). I never called into question the method of marking the bats. Just what people were seeing and what was being done.
I just read the assumption in your post that an engraved bat meant that the bat didn't comply with the standard. Unless you work for Easton and know this to be a fact, it's probably not an assumption to accept as fact.
As to making the transition, my older son has transitioned to the HS bats just fine and is hitting with no problems. He began playing travel ball years ago when there were no bat standards beyond barrel size, then played HS with BESR and has transitioned to BBCOR. The only difference is that the BBCOR bats have a smaller sweet spot and are therefore less forgiving. Square it up on the barrel and it has a little loss in distance, but still plenty to get over a fence or past the infield. To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy going to all wood bats at all ages, or using the same BBCOR barrel ratings across all drops of bat. At the end of the day, the kids who can hit will still be able to hit and the kids who struggle will continue to struggle. Maybe balls that barely make it out end up at the warning track, but a kid hitting a ball 350 today with last year's bat will still hit it 320 with the new standard bat. |
| rippit |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 10:21:22
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Coach Mark: With regards to that letter. "thousands of bats in warehouses post production"??????????
In other words, we didn't make these the same way and in order not to be stuck with these bats we fixed them up real nice.
I was going to buy a new Easton bbcor for my son. Rethinking doing business with them now.
You're making a huge assumption that the bats DON'T meet the bpf requirement and have been stamped that they do. IF the bats do meet the bpf requirement, why should you care if they were stamped pre or post production BY THE MANUFACTURER? If they had thousands of bats that already were within the bpf requirement and would have otherwise had to been destroyed, I certainly support a business decision to figure out a way to stamp the bats so that they can be sold. If the DON'T meet the bpf requirement, then they shouldn't be stamped, plain and simple.
The only thing the engraving does is introduce a different way that someone doctoring bats could use to try and replicate a logo to "legitimize" an otherwise illegal bat. If someone is willing to take those steps, then that person is also willing to doctor a bat that has a "pre-production" stamp affixed. At the end of the day, all the USSSA fingerprint is designed to do is to allow an umpire/coach/player a quick method of identifying if the bat met the bpf standard upon manufacturing. I'm sure that there are bats made 4-5 years ago that meet that standard.
You state that "we didn't make these the same way". Frankly, neither of us know that this is the case. I don't know what the testing process is by any manufacturer to determine that their bat is within the bpf 1.15 or BBCOR specification, but we have to trust that the manufacturers are required to, and following that process and wouldn't stamp a non-compliant bat as being compliant.
You seem bent on the fact that there are two ways to mark a bat, engraving (which Easton used on some post-production bpf 1.15 compliant bats) and stamping. As long as the bats are compliant and are properly marked when I purchase them, then I don't care how they're marked.
Full disclosure - between my 3 sons, I have 5 bpf 1.15 bats. Three Eastons and two other brands. The three Easton's both have engraved logos. One came directly from Easton as a warranty replacement and the other two were purchased from JustBats. The two other brands both have screened logos. We took all 5 out one day and I had one boy hit with all 5 bats. Other than taking into account the different weight and size difference between them, I didn't see any appreciable difference between any of them (stamped or engraved logos). At the same time, he also hit with BBCOR and BESR and there was a noticeable difference between the BBCOR and ALL other bats. The BESR was very similar to the BPF 1.15.
Are you Coach Mark or do you work for Easton? Why the attack when you said the following previously in this thread?
"I watched about a dozen games at the Slugfest over the weekend and saw several players using bats that were not legal. I'm not talking about bats that there were suspicions of tampering. I'm specifically talking about previous year models without the USSSA stamp (big barrel, not small barrel) and BESR -3 bats instead of BBCOR. I also overheard coaches who recognized the opposing teams were using a non-compliant bat but chose to just let it go. To be clear, I NEVER heard any coach indicate that he was aware that any of HIS players were knowingly using a non-compliant bat. I'm not accusing any teams of knowingly cheating. I really think that there is still a bit of ignorance on a lot of peoples part with respect to what is legal and what is not. In the case of Triple Crown, their penalties defer to NFHS when using a non-compliant bat which state that as soon as player steps into the box, the batter is considered to have used the illegal bat (doesn't have to see a pitch) with the penalty of the batter being ruled "out" and all runners returning to their base occupied at the start of the at-bat.
In the case of one game, protesting would VERY likely have changed the final outcome of the game which one team was eliminated and would probably not have been had they protested the use of the bat.
So what's everyone's take on this? As I mentioned, I saw several coaches simply choose not to take a bat out of an opposing player's hands. Certainly their prerogative, but definitely shifts advantage to kids using bats hotter than others. Is everyone going to simply overlook the new restrictions and play-on, regardless of what bats are being used? Real curious to what others saw this weekend and what some coaches think about the matter.
Before everyone piles on about whether they think the bats are really any different with or without the new stamp, this is not the intent of this question. I don't really care if you think the change was done for money, if there is any difference between last year/this year models, etc. I think that topic has been beaten to death. I also know that some manufacturers didn't change paint schemes on their bats between last year's models and the new bpf 1.15 stamped model. I'm not including those in my observations. I saw bats that were 2-3 years old and there's no question that they were not legal. Both non-bpf 1.15 and BESR, both of which would be illegal for the Slugfest.
So what are coaches going to do this year and is this rule change really going to make any difference in what players swing?"
All I want to know is WHY didn't the bat manufacturers make those bats with the logo screened on DURING production rather than wait until after and engrave it on - which is something anyone can do - in the first place? Looks very suspicious to me.
So many on this forum have said the NEW bats are the same as the OLD bats...which adds to the problem. Sounds like they took non-compliant bats already made and engraved them to look compliant BUT IT'S THE SAME BAT AS LAST YEAR.
It's all good though. When these 13-14 year olds show up at HS tryouts next year and can't get a ball past the infield, I'm sure no one will notice. |
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