| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jacjacatk |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 00:11:18
I'm a stats geek, and have dug around baseball-reference.com many times looking at the careers of many players, including the handful of former pros I've met. In the course of doing so, I've found a local coach who's online bio lists professional experience (within the last 20 years, so it's unlikely the online data is incomplete) through the ML level when there is no record of him having played professional baseball.
Curious if anyone else has run into this phenomenon, and what if anything they've done about it? |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| peashooter |
Posted - 07/15/2012 : 15:45:46
What you all should try and find out...WATCH the coach interact with your kids close up during tryouts...What does the coach tell the kids...What does the coach SEE? I yet to see a coach actually be able to SEE what is going on with each kid individually and have individual plans for each kid.
Is your kid sensitive, need kid gloves?
Does your kid need a boot up his but to throw that extra 5 MPH and hit 400' bombs
Do you have specific trigger or focus points for each kid to work on hitting and fielding.
See how much new stuff you learn in the tryout about what your kid should work on from the coach. If you don't have a bunch of stuff, then the coach is not really a coach. They are just someone running a team.
Another overlooked item is how the coach manages games and coaches. Does the coach constantly teach during games 100% of the time, or does he just sit at 3rd and give signs? Does he move kids into the right fielding position based on pitch and have balls hit right to them routinely? Does he properyly shift outfielders with each batter based on observing the hitter. Does he know how to call pitches by observing the batter, and helping force the kids to pitch inside? Is he willing to give up a walk to teach a kid to thow a 3-2 changeup or curveball?
Or is the coach just assembling the best talent and letting the talent do the work?
Sorry for the rant! |
| teddy41 |
Posted - 07/15/2012 : 10:37:07
what about coaches who played but had a sketchy career or got in trouble for various reasons or were bad players do they count. I agree that some very good coaches did not make it to the show and vice versa. I have had free coaches who did more for my kids than paid ones as far as dedication, communication and how they treated kids. To most paid coaches this is a job just like we all have jobs some care and some dont but they all do it for money |
| 743 |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 08:51:16
http://thebaseballcube.com/search.asp is your friend!
I am not saying you have to have played to be a good coach, but honesty
is a direct reflection of your inner character.
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| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 07:38:59
That time of year watch for fake playing credentials check your coaches resume's online, don't believe someone played just because they said they did. |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 09:35:53
quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
Parents beware! There is ZERO correlation between being a good youth baseball coach and playing the game as a professional. That's not to say that having played the game is not helpful to coaching and teaching the game, but the two endeavors require very different skill sets and mind sets. One is competitive in nature and the other is collaborative.
There are countless examples in MLB of good players who were bad coaches and marginal players who became good coaches. Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa are two recent examples of the latter. There is nothing wrong with a coach emphasizing his playing experience, but when they do so it certainly begs the question from parents to ask as to how that experience helps them coach and teach the game to developing players.
You can have 40 years of experience driving a car, but that experience won't necessarily qualify you to race one on a track. . .
I agree with this because you said "youth baseball coach". I bet you could get the teacher of the year in an elementary or middle school and give them a baseball book a few lesson and they would become great baseball coaches at the youth level and you would see huge improvements in their players.
I think as you move up to teen years 13 and up playing experience is huge in being able to coach the little things that you can't learn from watching games or reading books. That is not to say everyone that played can coach. You are right on any level. I wonder how many great high school or college or minor league baseball coaches never played at least at a college or minor league level. |
| Flatbat22 |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 13:44:10
Whether you played professionally or not doesn't make you a good or bad coach! The fact that you would lie about it does make you a person with shady character and integrity. This topic started about coaches who lie about past experience, not about what makes a coach a good coach. Quite simply, if a coach lies about his playing days, what else is he lying about? |
| bballman |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 16:14:43
I'll just emphasize what a couple of others have said here. I don't think it matters whether or not a coach has MLB experience. However, if a coach is lying about his past experience in order to gain credibility, or for any other reason, that is a red flag in my book. I wouldn't want a liar teaching my son anything. Integrity in life as well as in baseball is much more important than getting lessons or being coached by some former "pro". I want someone who is honest and who has integrity as a coach. Because I want my son to learn those values. If you have a liar as a coach, make a change. |
| RACGOFAR |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 15:14:47
Parents beware! There is ZERO correlation between being a good youth baseball coach and playing the game as a professional. That's not to say that having played the game is not helpful to coaching and teaching the game, but the two endeavors require very different skill sets and mind sets. One is competitive in nature and the other is collaborative.
There are countless examples in MLB of good players who were bad coaches and marginal players who became good coaches. Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa are two recent examples of the latter. There is nothing wrong with a coach emphasizing his playing experience, but when they do so it certainly begs the question from parents to ask as to how that experience helps them coach and teach the game to developing players.
You can have 40 years of experience driving a car, but that experience won't necessarily qualify you to race one on a track. . . |
| BBall123 |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 08:28:22
This is a very good post, I guess I never thought someone would do this or be able to get away with it. After reading this thread ,I went to all the sites listed here plus a couple more looking for a guy that was supposed to have played with the Yankees Org. ,long story short, I couldnt find ANY ,mention of him anywhere??
After seeing what he was teaching I had questioned it and wondered was this guy for real? But I guess I just took for granted what I had been told.  |
| Flatbat22 |
Posted - 12/23/2011 : 23:30:25
Baseball-reference.com has every player over the last 100 years who have played at any level. My team played more than one coach who advertises themselves as former major league and minor league players. I encourage you all to do your research before you commit thousands of dollars to a coach. Character and integrity should be the most important factors of choosing a coach for your son. There are too many parents who get sold on a brand or a coach who has alleged pro experience. Just because you play in a certain organization doesn't mean that organization or the coaches have the ability to coach. I recommend choosing a coach and a team that develops your child properly. Baseball players get scholarships and get drafted because they're good players, not because of where they play travel baseball. Good luck and make sure you do your research on any and all coaches you are considering! |
| Black Bart |
Posted - 12/22/2011 : 16:35:33
Same thing happens with coaches claiming to play in college. Most teams (D1) produce a media guide each year which includes historical letter winners. A few minutes searching will give you good insight into the truthfullness of the coach. There is a good chunk of coaches with fabricated credentials. Amazing to me that they try to get away with it. |
| bigred10 |
Posted - 12/22/2011 : 09:29:53
make sure you check out the coaches if you are on a new team.2 yrs ago went with a team that got a paid coach who was suppose to have played professional mlb with a very good team out of penn. he did not know how to place kids in right position on field, he could relate to kids or parents.belive me it was a miserble year for everyone.sad part he still trying to coach. |
| jacjacatk |
Posted - 12/21/2011 : 22:13:47
quote:
Originally posted by billbclk
Professional baseball starts once you hit the minors.
Right, and the online databases include all professional baseball at least as far back as the 90s (don't know how far back they go for fully independent minor leagues). This guy isn't listed on any professional roster ever in these databases, despite claiming 12 years of professional experience at the MiLB and MLB levels.
quote:
Originally posted by billbclk
I don't really care if a coach has pro experience as a player or coach. I care more that he can teach and communicate baseball fundamentals at the level appropriate for his age.
And this is also true. My son's two best on-field coaches have had no experience past HS (as far as I know). |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 12/21/2011 : 20:30:05
Completely agree, however . . . .
If a coach is lying about his qualifications, he is speaking volumes about his character. And this is a guy that you'll be entrusting to help mold your child's character as a player.
quote:
Originally posted by billbclk
Professional baseball starts once you hit the minors. I don't really care if a coach has pro experience as a player or coach. I care more that he can teach and communicate baseball fundamentals at the level appropriate for his age.
|
| billbclk |
Posted - 12/21/2011 : 20:11:01
Professional baseball starts once you hit the minors. I don't really care if a coach has pro experience as a player or coach. I care more that he can teach and communicate baseball fundamentals at the level appropriate for his age. |
| jongamefan |
Posted - 12/18/2011 : 17:10:55
Happens a lot |
| jacjacatk |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 20:53:19
My son's had good and bad coaches, and they've been about evenly split between the ones with pro experience and without, but as far as I know none have oversold themselves.
The coach I found is coaching a team my son considered trying out for but ultimately didn't (at least in part because of the discrepancy). Interestingly he has apparently had a lot of success, but the more I look at the claims in his (and his assistant's) bios the more it looks fabricated or the truth appears to be have been severely stretched. Given that I've got no relationship with the team, I don't feel especially compelled to go into the details, but on the other hand, I think I'd be really annoyed if my son was playing for someone who had fabricated their credentials, especially if there was significant money involved.
I also find it odd that anyone would fabricate a professional baseball career, given how trivial it is to check on. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 16:20:42
I think George O'Leary tried that once . . . |
| Tribe |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 15:18:01
I recently had a similar experience. Was looking for data (using both of the above referenced sites) and could not find a record of my son's coach having played anywhere, despite a similar claim on his team website bio.
So the question is: what do you do about it?
I was not willing to challenge the coach to prove his professional experience. I held out hope that somehow, for some reason, both sites were somehow in error. But my gut tells me that the coach fabricated his resume.
My son ended up leaving the team for a more competitive one, and the coach's unverifiable resume probably played a small part in our decision.
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| jacjacatk |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 14:06:53
I used to use that before bbref put the minor league details online. In any case, the result is the same for the coach in question, no evidence that he ever played professional baseball (and both sites include even independent minor-league ball going back to at least the 90s). |
| WestCoastGuru |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 09:58:31
I like to use thebaseballcube.com as far as researching professional careers, you may want to give that a try and see if anything differs.
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