| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SSBuckeye |
Posted - 08/24/2011 : 15:06:24
Someone sent this to me, and I thought it was worth sharing.
Andy
http://tinyurl.com/3z94rfn |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| rippit |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 11:56:58
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
SSBuckeye
I guess I was missing your point. Throwing curve balls and # of games burnout etc. are good points. It's funny my son could tell me today he wants to quit playing football, lacrosse or basketball and it wouldn't bother me at all, now if he said baseball I would be a little concerned. 
"It only becomes an issue when the kids are playing whatever sport because mom and dad failed in thier own endevers and now they have to live though thier child. All the time toughting how thier kid loves it or that they need the structure."
Funny thing is if these dads had it to do over again they would fail again.
I'm not a dad and I never played baseball, but define "fail".
Perhaps some "failed" in their own mind or perhaps they just think it's cool that their son has access to all this when they didn't.
They may not have "failed" then, but some of them are failing now. And some are doing it just right. There are 1000 points to be made on this topic. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 11:15:17
SSBuckeye
I guess I was missing your point. Throwing curve balls and # of games burnout etc. are good points. It's funny my son could tell me today he wants to quit playing football, lacrosse or basketball and it wouldn't bother me at all, now if he said baseball I would be a little concerned.
"It only becomes an issue when the kids are playing whatever sport because mom and dad failed in thier own endevers and now they have to live though thier child. All the time toughting how thier kid loves it or that they need the structure."
Funny thing is if these dads had it to do over again they would fail again. |
| ramman999 |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 11:04:07
quote:
Originally posted by klhmlh
One - because even if he is that “Elite” player at some point MOST of the kids are going to catch him. Two – you can find good competetion without traveling all of the region/country. Three – At those young ages is it really the kids wanting to play at that level or is it the parents wanting them to play at that level to say they are?
All fair points - the cream will certainly rise to the top.
Every spring and every fall I ask my now 11yr old what does he want to do. He always comes back to baseball - specifically travel baseball, no matter how hard I've suggested trying rec ball again. His "level" has not been determined by me, it's been by the teams who have selected him. I think he is a decent player - I let others decide how decent, and I am a realist - to me you don't know anything about a player until the big field, but by then, he might not want to play. At 11 how many kids get to talk about going to play at Disney or in Cooperstown?
My perspective of 'good baseball' growing up was Milford, Ct. in the 1970's and 80's. My good baseball friends were from the neighborhood, or across town. At 12 and 13 we still had kids that couldn't catch a pop up, kids that had crazy mechanics on the mound, and you know what else you see in baseball - all the pro's of my era came from similar towns and backgrounds and didn't play outside of LL and school ball - they seemed to turn out ok!
My son's perspective of 'good baseball' is Cooperstown, and the Elite 32 World Series, as well as various competitive tournaments in the region. His good baseball friends live in other towns, or other states, or across the country. At 9 and 10 kids are working with former pro's, pitching mechanics are excellent, and kids routinely make ESPN highlight plays - we are just starting to see the pro's show up from this generation of travelball players, so I will reserve judgement for who is better off. |
| klhmlh |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 09:10:28
This year my son turned 16. He has was asked to play travel at 10 but we deceided that he was to young to be play 30-40 games and waited until he was 12 to start and at that point he played on “AA” until he was 14. Was the decision to wait until he was 12 a good one? “Maybe so or Maybe not”. He was behind when he started and a lot of the travel teams around was only looking for 2-4 “Elite” players (in my opion there is no a lot of those at 12). So he stuggled with hitting and finding the right spot to play until he was 14. Was the decision not travel all over the region and play 100 games a good one? “I think it was”. He didn’t burn out and we also stayed mostly in the state and didn’t spend a load of money.
At 15 he made his High School team. Not because he was on an elite travel team but because he worked his tail off to make it. At 16 he decided he wanted to play on a Showcase type team and is going to play with a mid-level team that will play 30-40 games this fall and 40-60 next summer and play in the Prefect game, CABA, etc. I think he has truned into a pretty good baseball player and I think during his 17 year fall/summer seasons he will start looking at moving to a higher level show case team. So at this point we are spending 5000-8000 a year but he knows now he wants to play.
My point is a kid doesn’t have to play this high level/high cost travel at 10,11,12,13 or 14. One - because even if he is that “Elite” player at some point MOST of the kids are going to catch him. Two – you can find good competetion without traveling all of the region/country. Three – At those young ages is it really the kids wanting to play at that level or is it the parents wanting them to play at that level to say they are?
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| reallycoach |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 09:04:07
I think the the real point is are the kids in a fun, safe and challenging enviornment. Some kids love the challenge of TB, others would prefer the 12-20 game season of a rec ball enviornment, others are there becuase mom and dad think it's a cheap babysitter.
In the end if your kid loves the game and would rather play 60-90 games a season instead of hanging at the lake, then good for them. IF they would rather ride thier bike, play a coule games a week with light practices, then good for them.
It only becomes an issue when the kids are playing whatever sport because mom and dad failed in thier own endevers and now they have to live though thier child. All the time toughting how thier kid loves it or that they need the structure.
If would only learn to listen to the kids, they are much smarter then we give them credit for. |
| SSBuckeye |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 08:10:09
To me, the point of the article is there has been an explosion in this thing called travel baseball, but for what reason. Does that mean more kids are wanting to play travel ball to enhance their skils, or is it simply that more parents are determined to make Johnny the next Jeter. If it's the former, and your kid is in that group, cool. If it's the latter and your kid is getting taken for a ride he would otherwise not have chosen, then you have a problem. I feel good that the amount of baseball my kids play is appropriate to their level of interest and ability, so I think we're okay. But, I can tell you there are many, many kids out there who are doing this because it's what daddy wants. Those boys will be doing something else in a few years.
And, if you feel the latter group is a large subset of the ever-expanding travel universe, this explosion in travel ball popularity is less about a sport that is growing in popularity and more about parents wanting to buy their son the dream they themselves never could achieve, and that's a problem. I believe that is the central point the article is trying to make.
To me, this is not just a travel baseball phenomenon. Parents today, in my view, are way more apt to do everything they can to ensure their children "succeed" in life. On the surface, this is good, but it leads to problems. I can't tell you how many friends of ours write letters every year to their school to ensure Johnny gets the best teacher with the cool group of kids. Or, parents hold back an otherwise well adjusted kid (there are very legit reasons to do this as well, not talking about those cases) so they can either over achieve athletically or academically in school. The travel ball explosion seems to exist in other sports as well. I see it with AAU basketball and soccer, too.
My parents would have never dreamed of doing these things, but it seems as though parents today feel they need to make sure their kids are always in the best possible situation. For me, that's not life. Kids need to deal with some amount of ADVERSITY in order to grow into well adjusted adults, like getting cut from a sports team or working extra hard in school even though some kids are 13-14 months older. But with parents doing so much to make sure that never happens, I wonder how these kids will handle the real world.
End of rant. :-)
Andy |
| ramman999 |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 06:38:39
quote:
Originally posted by SSBuckeye
At the end of the day, the adults are supposed to know what's best for their kids. In many/most cases, they probably do. For example, some kids can play 90-100 games/year and be the better for it. Some won't. I personally think that playing that much is crazy, but I also guarantee you if I told some of my friends that my 9-yr old son played 60 games last year, and my 12u team will have a $25k+ budget next season that they would think I am just as crazy.
I look at playing baseball no different than some of the other hobbies out there- for boys and girls. If someone has a passion for something, who am I to squash it? My son loves the game, the article missed that point.
The writer could make the same point about competition cheer leading for 5yr olds, which to me is completely ridiculous, but for someone out there it is a way of life.
My point is that while it certainly does not guarantee a trip to the majors, travel ball is an expansion on Gladwell's 10,000 hr theory. That is, that one of the keys to success in a given field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for around 10,000 hours.
So if little Johnny locks himself up in his room for 6 hrs a day playing his guitar, that is ok. Or if little Stacy practices her piano for 2hrs before school and 6 hrs after school that is ok too. But if I let my son follow his 11 yr old passion and play travel baseball, I am in the wrong as a parent? I don't follow I guess.
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| Spartan4 |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 23:11:05
I love every second of the ride as well.....The reason we do all this traveling and spend all this money is because our boys love it too.....IMO the author of this article might want to spend some time researching all the kids who are forced to play sports but hate it!! Too many kids play football or baseball because daddy liked playing....I heard a kid from a team from Florida tell his dad he hated him and he hated pitching at the Elite 32.....Guess who started the next game they played?!?!?! |
| SSBuckeye |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 22:26:26
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
quote:
Originally posted by SSBuckeye
It's unfortunate that most of us won't know how we did for another 5 years or so. And, by then, it will be too late to do anything about it.
Andy
You are missing the point. How did you do in five years? If your son is playing baseball "right now" that is what is important. Sounds like you are allowing your son to play a game he loves that tells it all. You are doing just fine!
It isn't the end result, too many people don't stop and smell the burning wood or leather on a foul ball. Try and enjoy every moment of the game now because too many people keep waiting and waiting then they are disappointed. Everyone stops playing sooner or later even the best.
No, you're missing my point. The point I've apparently badly made is that there are quite a few key decisions that parents and even coaches have to make now, the consequences of which will not be known for some time. Examples, do I allow curveballs at 12; should we play on a team that plays 40-50 games per year, or one that plays 100 games throughout the spring, summer and fall; when do we start travel ball, 8u, 10u, 12u? Etc, etc.
We're all working with imperfect information, so we have to trust our judgment, and we won't know until much later if we were right. Some kids are going to burn out on the sport. Some kids are going to throw out their arms. The decisions the adults make now influence those outcomes.
That was my only point. I love every second of the ride and hope it never ends. |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 18:03:05
Amen to all that has been posted. If it's budgets we are worried about, how much are these families paying to be on the road the entire month traveling from states, to regionals and then 2 weeks at the LLWS. Cost is comparable to most travel teams, at least the LLWS is FREEEEEE!!!!! NO GATE FEES FOR EVERY DAY!!!!!!! Try that Travel ball National Tournaments. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 16:52:28
quote:
Originally posted by SSBuckeye
It's unfortunate that most of us won't know how we did for another 5 years or so. And, by then, it will be too late to do anything about it.
Andy
You are missing the point. How did you do in five years? If your son is playing baseball "right now" that is what is important. Sounds like you are allowing your son to play a game he loves that tells it all. You are doing just fine!
It isn't the end result, too many people don't stop and smell the burning wood or leather on a foul ball. Try and enjoy every moment of the game now because too many people keep waiting and waiting then they are disappointed. Everyone stops playing sooner or later even the best. |
| SSBuckeye |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 14:40:47
DecaturDad, you have the best perspective on this board, in my opinion.
I shared the article because it raises some valid points. On some of those points, I believe I am on the right side of the issue. Others, not so much. It's always important to keep things in perspective, and every once in awhile, we need that reminder. This is one of those reminders.
At the end of the day, the adults are supposed to know what's best for their kids. In many/most cases, they probably do. For example, some kids can play 90-100 games/year and be the better for it. Some won't. I personally think that playing that much is crazy, but I also guarantee you if I told some of my friends that my 9-yr old son played 60 games last year, and my 12u team will have a $25k+ budget next season that they would think I am just as crazy.
At the end of the day we are all left to our best judgment. It's unfortunate that most of us won't know how we did for another 5 years or so. And, by then, it will be too late to do anything about it.
Andy |
| baserunner |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 11:58:14
The age of the "youth-sports industrial complex" is upon us. An interesting perspective. It made me laugh (even at myself). |
| bballman |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 11:42:03
Well, in a lot of ways, I agree with the guy. My personal feeling is that travel ball starts way to early. If all the kids at 11 and under stayed in "Little League" or their local rec league, there would be plenty of competition because they would all be there. I may get the scourn of some here, but I agree that all this craziness is starting way too early. Overuse issues become one of the biggest concerns. I agree, when you start having coaches advertise that we will get your kid to the "next level" at 10, it is pretty rediculous.
On the other hand, you really can't talk about the official Little League because that particular organization is not available to everyone. I know here in Roswell, there is no Little League. My son couldn't have played for a Little League team even if he wanted to. We used to watch the Little League World Series when he was 12, 13 & 14 and he would be wishing that he could have played in it. Because of their geographic boundries and restrictions, not everyone can play for them.
I'll just leave it at that. |
| coachtony |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 11:36:22
This is typical Tim. He writes these articles as if he is some kind of expert. Look back over his previous work and you will see him calling out Kobe Bryant, Roger Goodell, Alex Rodriguez, and he is even questioning God...and that is only the first page of Google.
Like with everything else he has written, he is taking the minority view and turning it into a spectacle. Unless of course, he is correct and my team is the only team out here who is really here for the good of the kids, and the only team who is not making money on the backs of the boys, and the only team who uses the challenges of competition as healthy teaching aids for the players, and we must be the only team who really cares more about the boys having FUN than winning games.
If he is right, then I feel sorry for the rest of you.
--T |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 10:53:02
Thanks for sharing. Articles like this, and some of the related descussions on this board help me to remember that my son is only 12. Will he make his HS team? Play in college or beyond? I hope so. But he is 12 now. He tells me he "wants to take this as far as he can", but he also wants to play with his friends. So he will play on the same team he has been with since all stars. Could he play on one of the big name teams around here? Maybe. Would he see better pitching with one of those teams? Maybe. But the reality is he loves the friendships he has developed. He has a sense of commitment to the coaches who have worked with him for countless hours over the past five years.
Sure at some point soon he will need to move on. But for now, why push it? Thanks to everyone who helps keep us sane :-) |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 10:50:33
quote:
Originally posted by powerhitter15
Sounds like someone's jealous.
That is what I was thinking....If I let my kid play rec ball HE would want to quit....As a matter of fact I put a lot of thought into letting him play WAY down this year or up a year and AA because he had a hard time handling failure.....But instead I just found a team where there are more than 3 good players and I saw the attitude and negative emotion disappear. JMO but some kids actually want to play against the best teams, and those same kids know when they are just pounding inferior competition(these are usually the same boys who ask their parents if they can try out for such and such team because they pay attention at the ballpark). Another thing this ESPN "expert" completely failed on was generalizing size with skill level, I would consider my nephew a good player all around at the major level and he weighs about 95 lbs. I would've said the best player on our team this year who wasn't a pitcher probably weighed 85 lbs(he hit .500 and led our team in doubles)....Some giant kids are out there but there are as many akward goofy big boys as there are big boys who are just physically dominant. |
| baseballnutz |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 10:47:49
I read it twice, is most of what he wrote right on the money in some cases - yes! But he paints with a very broad brush, just like anything you are going to have extremes and this writer seems to grind on thoses extremes. We all know the positives of travel baseball so I won't go into it but this guy doesn't touch any of them. My take is he wrote it to draw attention during all the LL hype. |
| bestplayinbaseball |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 10:23:06
Thanks for sharing. |
| powerhitter15 |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 09:56:05
Sounds like someone's jealous. |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 09:38:16
Very well stated. It is the true state of affairs in sports. Is it right or wrong, tough question. Would there be such an exodus if the LLWS played the sport at the age level at which it is marketed? Or is that way becuase of the level of competition that partcipates? Which came first: the chicken or the egg? Great article. |
| Gwinnett |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 08:57:12
Bet this guy doesn't have a kid to play ball with.....lol But, he sure has an opinion. I bet he never played competitive baseball or basketball when he was a kid! He comes accross as a "REAL EXPERT"! |
| stanlewis |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 08:36:32
Moved this to the General area as it was being posted in multiple age group discussions.
It is an ESPN article. |
| T13 |
Posted - 08/25/2011 : 00:09:54
Seems some of the so called GA elite teams need to read this....... |
| slide_home |
Posted - 08/24/2011 : 17:19:12
Seems that coaches are the fuel to the fire that is driven by the winds of the parents. |
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