| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| cubs12 |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 10:32:29
Does your coaching staff for your travel team recruit to win games or stick with existing players hoping to see improvement over time?
What is your thought on this topic? |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Hiredgun |
Posted - 07/13/2011 : 10:51:52
The reason the player is not going is two fold.....#1 there is a medical issue with a family member and surgery is required and the hospital stay after surgery is about7 - 10 days. The parents are not able to go to the tournament. #2 the player has an injury to his elbow that has not healed and there is concern there, too.
The surgery issue happened to fall at the time we are leaving/playing in the tournament. This couldn't be helped. The injury has been ongoing since summer high school ball in June and for whatever reason, has not healed. There may be issues with the elbow that are serious. A visit to the doctor will tell.
We had 13 players to start and getting ample playing time for them is tough (just ask the parents of those not getting enough)and now with us going down to 12 players the opportunity to get that ample playing time will be much easier, we hope. Why bring in a "outsider" to play in front of your regular players.
As mentioned in another comment......parents paying lots of money for the trip would be up in arms to see the "outsider" playing instead of their son or another regular player.
Yes, drama seems to raise its ugly head every season no matter how hard a coach(s)tries to keep it in check. And yes, there is alway change......players getting hurt, players moving, players quitting, etc. The two are always there waiting to jump out when you least expect it.
Regardless, it will all be over in about two weeks.
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| ramman999 |
Posted - 07/13/2011 : 08:33:41
quote:
Originally posted by seminole tony
What about the player that is not going staying loyal to the team? Was the World Series planned at the beginning of the season? Are you going to keep this player next year(he didn't stay loyal)? What if the majority of parents want an outside player? Spending a lot of money and family vacation time to go far away and lose. I not talking about bringing a whole team of ringers. Just one child to help fill a hole left by an unpredicted lost. There is being loyal to the team and just doing something not thought out completely. This IS a big money decision that should be brought to all the parents for opinions.
I think this is a great point.. Obviously things come up, and issues do occur, but when did not picking up a player become a badge of honor? The rules are set up to allow ALL teams to utilize this option for emergency or otherwise - some chose to, some chose not to. Every team has it's strengths and weaknesses. If a key player is not available, you owe it to the team and the families to go with the best option available - if that option is on your own team, great. If you have an opportunity to fill that outside of your team and the families are for it, thats great too.
quote:
Originally posted by seminole tony
On the other side... you do have twelve players and if the child that is not attending was not a crucial part of the mix, he might not be missed(discuss that w/ the parents). That's one less child to worry about getting into the batting order. He must be one of the better players though, if it was a scrub this post wouldn't be here.
The team is made of of families and it should be considered. Coach has the final word on the field but this is one of those lines where I would look to the rest of the team for answers.
Spot on. If I have a top pitcher unavailable for a long tournament, why wouldn't I bring on a pitcher? Rarely is a team 100% balanced and no drop offs from starter to backup. Losing a key player, like a SS, a pitcher or a catcher can take turn an excellent team into a good team real quick.
There is a reason why there are different classifications for teams, and there are multiple teams out there. Situations change, players change, personalities change. People grow up, some don't, some live through their kids, others have other kids and can't devote their weekends. Nothing wrong with any of it. Just remember, there are two constants in travel ball - drama, and change. |
| seminole tony |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 14:26:59
What about the player that is not going staying loyal to the team? Was the World Series planned at the beginning of the season? Are you going to keep this player next year(he didn't stay loyal)? What if the majority of parents want an outside player? Spending a lot of money and family vacation time to go far away and lose. I not talking about bringing a whole team of ringers. Just one child to help fill a hole left by an unpredicted lost. These kids could hold it against the child and his family (that aren't going). That's black balling them for a long time.
There is being loyal to the team and just doing something not thought out completely. This IS a big money decision that should be brought to all the parents for opinions.
On the other side... you do have twelve players and if the child that is not attending was not a crucial part of the mix, he might not be missed(discuss that w/ the parents). That's one less child to worry about getting into the batting order. He must be one of the better players though, if it was a scrub this post wouldn't be here.
The team is made of of families and it should be considered. Coach has the final word on the field but this is one of those lines where I would look to the rest of the team for answers.
As stated earlier in this post, Kids are getting better with every season of ball. Some excel faster then others and new teammates are made as you progress to better teams. Nothing against previous teams or coaches, just moving on to better the child. Don't take it as an insult that a child leaves a team, thats life and maybe some other child may make a better fit. Thats how kids (and parents) make new friends. |
| cubs12 |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 14:24:03
quote:
Originally posted by Hiredgun
Our team just learned this past weekend that one of our starters will not be able to go to our W.S. tournament later this month. Our team carries 13 players. We are now down to 12.
A few parents have asked if we were going to pick up a player to take the place of the player not able to go. Our answer to them was NO. We told them that we have 12 players and we are not going to pick up an "outsider" to come in and play in front of the players on the team that have been with us the entire season.
I am just sick and tired of parents who think that they have the magical answer for everything. They always want to throw their 2 cents in regardless of the situation. And the ones that want to pick up another player would have a screaming fit if it was their son that had to sit the bench to let the pickup play.
NO SIR. We are not falling into that trap. We are staying loyal to the players that have been with the team thru thick and thin.
My time is up and I thank you for yours.
I agree here. Why would there be a need to pick up when you have 12 commpetent kids left? Are they competent? Maybe some think they aren't. We have a few that if they missed a game and someone else was playing in their spot, it's noticed. Error after error.
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| Hiredgun |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 10:58:32
Our team just learned this past weekend that one of our starters will not be able to go to our W.S. tournament later this month. Our team carries 13 players. We are now down to 12.
A few parents have asked if we were going to pick up a player to take the place of the player not able to go. Our answer to them was NO. We told them that we have 12 players and we are not going to pick up an "outsider" to come in and play in front of the players on the team that have been with us the entire season.
I am just sick and tired of parents who think that they have the magical answer for everything. They always want to throw their 2 cents in regardless of the situation. And the ones that want to pick up another player would have a screaming fit if it was their son that had to sit the bench to let the pickup play.
NO SIR. We are not falling into that trap. We are staying loyal to the players that have been with the team thru thick and thin.
My time is up and I thank you for yours.
|
| Hardball2 |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 10:31:52
quote:
Originally posted by cubs12
Does your coaching staff for your travel team recruit to win games or stick with existing players hoping to see improvement over time?
What is your thought on this topic?
Really good topic!
I think my son's coaches (past coaches, were not going back next year) are doing a little of both which is a problem sometimes. The players that they are keeping around hoping to see improvement from, parents are friends of the coaches.
Now, my philosophy on recruiting to win is, I used to frown on teams that recruited to win, but as my son developed into a good athlete and baseball player, I thought that with all the work and training he puts in he should be rewarded by playing with a team who trains hard and has the ability to win tournaments. |
| ramman999 |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 09:05:44
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
If you feel like your son is one of the top players on his current team, but is not asked back next season and this is a recurring theme then it's "YOU" not your son or his skill that is keeping him from being asked back.
+1.
Reality is, as the boys get older, the athleticism starts to shine through. You can't hide the slow kids on the corners anymore. There is nothing wrong with a teams talent level outgrowing a players capacity.
Hopefully, by the time parents have a couple of years of travel ball under their belts, they have lost the "my kid plays SS, bats cleanup" mentality too - that gets old. Sometimes, parents need to sit back, shut up, and be objective.. Let your childs play do the talking. - I've always said I'd rather my son play on a good team and be the 7th best player rather than a crummy team and be the best player.. It motivates him to work harder and guess what, by years end, he probably wont be the 7th best... |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 07:42:57
If you feel like your son is one of the top players on his current team, but is not asked back next season and this is a recurring theme then it's "YOU" not your son or his skill that is keeping him from being asked back. |
| cubs12 |
Posted - 07/11/2011 : 22:35:39
"They take the same group of boys from 8U to HS and just let them play wherever those boys talent will allow them to play". Why would anybody do this in comp baseball?
"No one gets an offer for automatic carry over. Everyone gets an equal chance to make it or not". Perfect scenario that is not always practiced.
"it is important to keep the competitive spirit going and avoid complacency by parents, players, coaches, everyone - that is the only way to improve as a team." Spot On!
"if you have players that you truly believe cannot compete at the level that you (a) have been playing or (b) are planning to play, then it's time to have a tough conversation with a family" This is where we're at.
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| zwndad |
Posted - 07/11/2011 : 17:42:16
Back to the original question ... if you have players that you truly believe cannot compete at the level that you (a) have been playing or (b) are planning to play, then it's time to have a tough conversation with a family. Also, regardless of players ability, if you have a player and/or family that you can't work with(for whatever reason ... you know what they are), then it's also time to have a tough conversation. If you think you can coach a kid up, and they are committed to put in the work on and off the field, then I think you should continue to work with them.
All of this, of course, depends on the type of team you decide to have. I would think that all teams are trying to develop their players to improve during the season, so I'm not sure I buy into the distinctions above. Of course, you're trying to win games. Even if you're not trying to be a top team that can win every weekend, you're trying to win at whatever level is appropriate for your core team. |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 07/11/2011 : 13:53:21
Slurve, I would disagree with that statement. You may be making a very generalized statement, but that is a huge untrue statement. If you think that development comes from teams that stay together till high school is not entirely true. It all comes down to the coaching staff and their ability to develop. If you have bad coaches and play together 8 years, you will still be bad and unprepared, it doesn't come by osmosis. If you can't coach it, the players don't ever get unless they are a good athlete. |
| kidsgame |
Posted - 07/11/2011 : 13:34:35
This discussion reminds me of a Vince Lombardi quote - Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. This mom loves to win, but I hate to think of the life lessons sacrificed or skewed when winning is the top priority. Winning is that much sweeter when all players contribute and encourage each other as friends.
Choose your players wisely coaches - the kids you pick are relying on you. It's a blessing. If you choose to drop a player between age groups, do it kindly and with respect to the player and his family. It shouldn't come as a surprise.
Also, how does a coach go about coaching if the coach doesn't care about his players' development? |
| AllStar |
Posted - 07/11/2011 : 08:50:48
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by Slurve
The whole Idea of select baseball is to be as competitive as possible. I myself want my son to be on a winning team and make friends later because if you win you will make friends. If playing the buddy system everyone might as well go back rec
You should be able to find lots of like-minded coaches. Hope you're not expecting your son's development to be a very high priority on those teams.
I don't guess Slurve has learned there aren't teams who win and develop.....He must be new around here....The only teams who "develop" players don't care anything at all about winning or getting better. They take the same group of boys from 8U to HS and just let them play wherever those boys talent will allow them to play.
If winning is the most important thing to the coaches and the parents, then everything else takes a back seat by definition.
Maybe the kids enjoy the experience.
Maybe the kids play as much as they want, or at least are comfortable with their playing time and know that it is fair. (Esp given that winning is the highest priority.)
Maybe the kids develop their talents to the maximum.
If they do all these things great, but if winning is the #1 priority, then all of the other things don't need to happen.
I do agree with him, though, that making friends isn't a high priority and if it happens, great, if not, that's fine too, but don't kid yourself that winning teams = making friends. Or all the players having fun. Or all the players being developed. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 23:44:24
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by Slurve
The whole Idea of select baseball is to be as competitive as possible. I myself want my son to be on a winning team and make friends later because if you win you will make friends. If playing the buddy system everyone might as well go back rec
You should be able to find lots of like-minded coaches. Hope you're not expecting your son's development to be a very high priority on those teams.
I don't guess Slurve has learned there aren't teams who win and develop.....He must be new around here....The only teams who "develop" players don't care anything at all about winning or getting better. They take the same group of boys from 8U to HS and just let them play wherever those boys talent will allow them to play. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 22:24:50
quote:
Originally posted by Slurve
The whole Idea of select baseball is to be as competitive as possible. I myself want my son to be on a winning team and make friends later because if you win you will make friends. If playing the buddy system everyone might as well go back rec
You should be able to find lots of like-minded coaches. Hope you're not expecting your son's development to be a very high priority on those teams. |
| Slurve |
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 00:14:59
The whole Idea of select baseball is to be as competitive as possible. I myself want my son to be on a winning team and make friends later because if you win you will make friends. If playing the buddy system everyone might as well go back rec |
| rippit |
Posted - 07/09/2011 : 18:01:03
quote:
Originally posted by touchemall
Sometimes you wish you could keep the kid and replace the parents...
A-freaking-men!!!!! |
| Grandcoach |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 22:30:58
Amend to Touch! |
| touchemall |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 15:13:01
Sometimes you wish you could keep the kid and replace the parents... |
| cubs12 |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 15:11:10
Good posts. I think the problem is we dont have paid coaches which means there are alot of relationships with parents which in turn makes it difficult for the coaches to replace players that need to go. My delimma is, should my nephew stay or try out for another team that is progressing? |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 14:07:15
I think there should be loyalty to existing players during the current season, but when that season is over coaches should hold tryouts and try to improve on the weaknesses it had as a team. That might mean replacing coaches, players or parents.
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| ramman999 |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 13:39:00
We also conduct open tryouts (10u)each spring and fall. Granted the turnover season after season has been fairly low, it is important to keep the competitive spirit going and avoid complacency by parents, players, coaches, everyone - that is the only way to improve as a team.
Some attrition can be talent based, attitude, patience, you name it. People can grow apart in relationships, so a team setting wouldn't be any different.
Now recruiting is a little different - to me you owe it to the team to recruit for players, families, positions, to fill holes in your teams, to better the team. If you have glaring weaknesses at certain positions and you do not have an answer in house, why wouldn't you recruit for those positions? |
| dmb350 |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 12:53:37
Every team is different. My son plays Elite/Majors (14u this year) and every team we've been on for the last 3 seasons has open tryouts every Fall. No one gets an offer for automatic carry over. Everyone gets an equal chance to make it or not. That's what you get with professional paid coached teams mostly. Its the only fair way to drop players that aren't getting it done and pick up new guys to create teams with the best talent possible.
It's a good time to ask the coach and any teams you are interested in what his/their plans are since most teams are already thinking Fall tryouts. |
