| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mets69 |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 11:19:50
What criteria does East Cobb Baseball use for selecting coaches? Do the coaches have to meet any qualifications such as having had prior playing or coaching experience? Is there a way to find out from ECB what the coaches qualifications are? I'm considering having my son tryout for an ECB team next year and am just wondering if it will mean an improvement in the quality of coaching that he's had so far. He's currently in middle school. |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| toprank |
Posted - 06/13/2011 : 11:38:01
quote:
Originally posted by PASSBALL
yes those mechanics may be ok for an pro or college. but what we have realize that teaching this to a 10,11,12,13,etc may not be a good thing for them at this age. A lot of the times we forget development which is not 3 month process.
[q
That is an excellent point! |
| biged |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 23:45:05
Like most parks there are good coaches and bad. However, when dealing with ecb there are other issues beyond the coaching. I won't go into the specifics because that subject has be beaten to death. However, like most of us, at one point or another we send our kids to ECB. It just one of those things we all must do at least once in our travel ball experience. |
| PASSBALL |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 15:46:11
yes those mechanics may be ok for an pro or college. but what we have realize that teaching this to a 10,11,12,13,etc may not be a good thing for them at this age. A lot of the times we forget development which is not 3 month process.
quote:
Originally posted by TBBFAN
quote:
Originally posted by toprank
I agree playing at a high level doesn't imply a vast knowledge of baseball or great coaching skills, but without playing it is tough to know what it is really like to stand in the box and face a guy throwing a 90mph fast ball or looking for that fastball while having to adjust and stay back and hit the ball the other way if he throws an off speed pitch. Reading about it, watching videos about it or attending clinics is easy but you can't understand the nuances of what it is really like without having done it. Like most things, I rather take lessons from someone who has done it than someone who has just read about it. Great managers/head coaches are great motivators and have to know the game but not necessarily have to have played the game, but need to surround themselves with instructors who have. JMO
The problem is, the guys who are really good as players are never taught anything about mechanics because they already have good mechanics. Unless they actually break down their own mechanics on video, most have no idea what they actually looked like when swinging or throwing. Their only resource for instruction is just repeating what they’ve heard over the years in regards to mechanics, which often isn’t very accurate. With that said, I do agree that they often have vast knowledge of the mental aspects of the game due to their experience.
When I was playing, I took pitching lessons from a guy who played more than 10 years in Major League Baseball and he was actually the starting pitcher for one All-Star game. He really helped me with learning how to pitch (mixing pitches, changing a hitter’s eye level…), but I later learned that the mechanics he taught weren’t exactly optimal for developing a pitcher. Since then, I have listened to what various pro instructors teach, and compared this information to video analysis of major league players. Needless to say, what is being taught my many instructors isn’t what the best of the best actually do.
I’m sure there are some really good instructors out there, but I encourage everyone listen to what is being taught and make sure that it actually makes sense. Don’t assume it is correct just because the instructor played college or pro ball.
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| TBBFAN |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 14:44:36
quote:
Originally posted by toprank
I agree playing at a high level doesn't imply a vast knowledge of baseball or great coaching skills, but without playing it is tough to know what it is really like to stand in the box and face a guy throwing a 90mph fast ball or looking for that fastball while having to adjust and stay back and hit the ball the other way if he throws an off speed pitch. Reading about it, watching videos about it or attending clinics is easy but you can't understand the nuances of what it is really like without having done it. Like most things, I rather take lessons from someone who has done it than someone who has just read about it. Great managers/head coaches are great motivators and have to know the game but not necessarily have to have played the game, but need to surround themselves with instructors who have. JMO
The problem is, the guys who are really good as players are never taught anything about mechanics because they already have good mechanics. Unless they actually break down their own mechanics on video, most have no idea what they actually looked like when swinging or throwing. Their only resource for instruction is just repeating what they’ve heard over the years in regards to mechanics, which often isn’t very accurate. With that said, I do agree that they often have vast knowledge of the mental aspects of the game due to their experience.
When I was playing, I took pitching lessons from a guy who played more than 10 years in Major League Baseball and he was actually the starting pitcher for one All-Star game. He really helped me with learning how to pitch (mixing pitches, changing a hitter’s eye level…), but I later learned that the mechanics he taught weren’t exactly optimal for developing a pitcher. Since then, I have listened to what various pro instructors teach, and compared this information to video analysis of major league players. Needless to say, what is being taught my many instructors isn’t what the best of the best actually do.
I’m sure there are some really good instructors out there, but I encourage everyone listen to what is being taught and make sure that it actually makes sense. Don’t assume it is correct just because the instructor played college or pro ball.
|
| PASSBALL |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 11:23:38
some good points have been made here. But first of all i would say, how old is the kid? Second would be how much involvement do you want to have? My first yr at ECB was when my son was 14u and we have been on the top team every year. Competeing is key at ECB with the top teams. My son has done his hitting and strength and condition at other places and we brought it back to the ECB. ECB is a machine that you probably go to once or twice a week for practice and the rest are games. Now they teach and develop but they can't take each player individually and work it because time just don't allow. So it like school, you may have to get the outside tutor to help your son and have your son bring back that knowledge to the teacher. But in the end where is your kid at when it is all said and done at 18? |
| toprank |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 09:07:43
I agree playing at a high level doesn't imply a vast knowledge of baseball or great coaching skills, but without playing it is tough to know what it is really like to stand in the box and face a guy throwing a 90mph fast ball or looking for that fastball while having to adjust and stay back and hit the ball the other way if he throws an off speed pitch. Reading about it, watching videos about it or attending clinics is easy but you can't understand the nuances of what it is really like without having done it. Like most things, I rather take lessons from someone who has done it than someone who has just read about it. Great managers/head coaches are great motivators and have to know the game but not necessarily have to have played the game, but need to surround themselves with instructors who have. JMO
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| m72 |
Posted - 06/07/2011 : 21:23:34
quote:
Originally posted by TBBFAN
I don’t know anything about East Cobb coaches, so my comments don’t apply to them. I’m sure they have some really good coaches there.
From my experiences, I would caution anyone from assuming that coach A is better than coach B because he played college or professional baseball. I have been around some very good coaches that never played at a high level, and I’ve been around some lousy coaches that played college or pro baseball. I don’t think the level of instruction in pro ball and college in nearly as good as some people think. I was told the following by a pitching instructor, “I played for the Cubs organization for several years, and they never taught me anything. They would tell us to go run or they would watch our bullpen sessions, but they never attempted to teach us anything about pitching”. He said that he didn’t realize how little he actually knew about pitching until he retired from baseball and started reading baseball material and attending clinics. I also coached with a guy a few years ago that played DI baseball. Some of the stuff he taught just made me shake my head in disbelief.
Playing at a high level doesn't imply a vast knowledge of baseball or great coaching skills. In order to be a good coach, you have to be in constant pursuit of new ideas and a desire to share those ideas with your players. Basically, I don’t care if the coach is just a dad or a professional, as long as he cares enough to teach the game the right way.
TBBFAN, great point and thank you for making it. I've been preaching that for years and it couldn't be more true. At the same time I believe there are different types of coaches. Some coaches are just game play knowledge (situation) coaches, some are like trainers (they know mechanics and fundamentals), some are both and some are none of the above and shouldn't be there. JMO |
| Bubbasdad |
Posted - 06/07/2011 : 14:51:29
IM NOT SURE IF HE KNOWS!!! IN MY VIEW ECB IS THE BEST OF THE BEST PERIOD THEY HAVE A PROVEN TRACK RECORD.quote:
Originally posted by stepoff
4bagger, are you coming back to ECB next year?
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| TBBFAN |
Posted - 06/07/2011 : 13:16:56
I don’t know anything about East Cobb coaches, so my comments don’t apply to them. I’m sure they have some really good coaches there.
From my experiences, I would caution anyone from assuming that coach A is better than coach B because he played college or professional baseball. I have been around some very good coaches that never played at a high level, and I’ve been around some lousy coaches that played college or pro baseball. I don’t think the level of instruction in pro ball and college in nearly as good as some people think. I was told the following by a pitching instructor, “I played for the Cubs organization for several years, and they never taught me anything. They would tell us to go run or they would watch our bullpen sessions, but they never attempted to teach us anything about pitching”. He said that he didn’t realize how little he actually knew about pitching until he retired from baseball and started reading baseball material and attending clinics. I also coached with a guy a few years ago that played DI baseball. Some of the stuff he taught just made me shake my head in disbelief.
Playing at a high level doesn't imply a vast knowledge of baseball or great coaching skills. In order to be a good coach, you have to be in constant pursuit of new ideas and a desire to share those ideas with your players. Basically, I don’t care if the coach is just a dad or a professional, as long as he cares enough to teach the game the right way.
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| Gold Glove |
Posted - 06/07/2011 : 10:43:13
Some excellent answers so far. My sons have never played at ECB but I have coached against them and have had sons compete against them for the past 7 years. I view ECB as the crown jewel of the southeast, as far as facilities are concerned. It has increased the profile of Georgia travel baseball like no other. But you must understand it's mission.
In my opinion ECB wants to win national championships each and every year. I respect that. To do that they need to amass as much talent as possible on the top team in each age group beginning at 13U. Once the Astros (Braves at 17U) have their players, then the Titans or the next team depending on the age group gets a shot at the players they want. The other teams can be coached or managed by a very dedicated parent or in many instances coaches that have that age group team every year.
For the 12U and younger I view it as an alternative to local park teams. No better no worse. There are a number of reasons coaches take their team there. That's the first question to ask, why are you here? Personally I know a number of teams being coached by dads whose son did not make their park travel team. Some are there because it is very close and convenient, just like any other local park. Others are there because their local park is roster restrictive, meaning a certain percentage of their players must live in that city, town or county. This sometimes keeps a team from really getting to the next level.
I am sure there are dozens of other reasons teams are at ECB but none of them guarantees great coaching or great experiences. The only way to insure this is to seek out quality private instruction that will enhance what your son is getting from his travel coach. |
| m72 |
Posted - 06/07/2011 : 00:08:17
quote:
Originally posted by oldmanmj
Mets69, have you played any travel ball before this? Honestly having played inside and outside ECB, you need to understand 2 things: #1) The number of teams at ECB have grown because the demand to get better is high. But just like at Adams Park, Oregon Park, West Cobb, etc., there are many men (dad's) that think they know better than most about their own son's abilities. Talking generally here. #2) Although ECB tries to develop the younger ages, the older ages- 12U thru 18U are primarily coaches that do not have boys that play. After the top 2 teams in those age groups, in my opinion, you can toss a coin. Your main objective like Hurricane stated is to research the coaches, watch them practice, watch them play and then decide. There are great coaches at ECB, 6-4-3, Home Plate, etc. but you have to find what fits for you. Some play for the prestige of being at ECB and I wouldn't touch them in a million years to help my son develop, but I also know they have some of the best coaches around. Use the academy to help with hitting and pitching. Chance Beam has great group of coaches to help you get what you may not get otherwise.
oldmanmj, I agree with everything but #1. While the demand to get better is high on everyones list, it doesn't happen just because you go to ECB. I'm speaking on the younger age groups here. I feel the number of teams having grown at ECB is because any coach or dad can fill out an application for a team and as long as they have a place to practice then it seems they get a team. Alot of teams out there want to be an ECB team because much of the higher talent tends to want to play there and it opens up more choices for coaches to choose from in comparison to what they got at try outs from where ever they use to play out of. Now having said that, when you say the demand to get better is high, do you mean for these teams or for individual kids. The way I'm reading it, you mean the kids. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Because in no way is your kid gauranteed to get better just by playing at ECB. I know of at least 3 teams or more in one age group that prior to last year and even a few this year that were a team from another park. So if we are talking about a higher demand for teams to get better then maybe I agree, but it's still in the hands of the coach. If you're not a good coach you can move your team anywhere you want and maybe get better players but the kids themselves won't get any better. I've seen high level players go to ECB and hit a stand still because of the coaching. I've also seen good teams get better simply because they turn over players every year for better ones, not because they have a good coach. Sometimes that's justified but when you have to acquire an entirely new team every year to get better then that tells me something about you as a coach and it's not because you're at ECB and the demand to get better is so high therefore they need more teams. JMO, even though I may have misread your post. |
| stepoff |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 23:21:07
4bagger, are you coming back to ECB next year? |
| dmb350 |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 22:27:01
My son (14U) played 3 seasons at ECB. I don't know about the younger age groups but at 13U it's the Astros and maybe 1 other team that are well coached real majors teams. All the rest are just average dad coached teams and are typically no better than your average well coached local park travel team.
At 14U, it's the Astros, Titans and maybe 1 other team that are professionally coached and considered true Majors or Elite teams (Astros). All the rest will fall into low Majors and AAA level. Basically, it's a flip of the coin as to what you get, even at ECB.
Go watch the team play right now. See the coach in action. Then you can ask the parents watchIng the game some questions and get some information to use when talking to the coach. Good luck. |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 21:59:12
Mets69, have you played any travel ball before this? Honestly having played inside and outside ECB, you need to understand 2 things: #1) The number of teams at ECB have grown because the demand to get better is high. But just like at Adams Park, Oregon Park, West Cobb, etc., there are many men (dad's) that think they know better than most about their own son's abilities. Talking generally here. #2) Although ECB tries to develop the younger ages, the older ages- 12U thru 18U are primarily coaches that do not have boys that play. After the top 2 teams in those age groups, in my opinion, you can toss a coin. Your main objective like Hurricane stated is to research the coaches, watch them practice, watch them play and then decide. There are great coaches at ECB, 6-4-3, Home Plate, etc. but you have to find what fits for you. Some play for the prestige of being at ECB and I wouldn't touch them in a million years to help my son develop, but I also know they have some of the best coaches around. Use the academy to help with hitting and pitching. Chance Beam has great group of coaches to help you get what you may not get otherwise. |
| 4bagger |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 21:00:03
Write a check, coach a team. I am not kidding.
I am not an ECB basher, we play there right now. What I don't get is why people can't figure this out for themselves. Take a look at the age group blogs on here and each one has some form of "whos the best team out there this season?" ECB has 3,4,5 sometimes 6 teams in each age group and how many of those make the aforementioned lists? 1? So what about the other 3 or 4?
I tried out my hypothesis by looking at the 10U blogs and there is a list of the top 10 teams and 8 are non-ECB teams. And 1 of those ECB teams is not exactly the team they were last season and I doubt would make that same list right now. So 80% of the top teams are not ECB teams.
At younger than 14U, the mucho extra money at ECB, the lack of field time and the fact that, unless you are on the 1 top team in the age group, better coaching is happening out of the rec fields makes me wonder why anyone play out of that facility. |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 13:21:46
I would contact the coach you want to play for and ask him. Although some coaches will make up stuff, most is easily verified. At ECB anyone can coach the younger age groups from what I hear. Around 13 the coaching gets better. The best thing to do is watch them in a game and watch them in a practice. Call the coach and ask if you can attend a practice and sit back and watch. |
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