| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| zwndad |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 17:47:31
OK, I know I'm probably opening up a can of worms, but I have a real question here.
When I watch high school and college games, I see them yelling/cheering/distracting the pitcher UNTIL HE STARTS HIS PITCHING MOTION.
Once the pitcher starts his motion, everybody stops, and it usually gets really quiet until after the pitch is delivered.
That seems to be the "acceptable" way to yell at the pitcher, if you're going to do it at all.
What are your thoughts from those of you who have been around longer than I have? Am I interpreting the unwritten rule correctly?
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| reallycoach |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 09:59:15
Personaly I think yelling balk for any reason should draw an automatice out. IF the pitcher is balking the head coach has a responsibility to the team and the game to call time and talk to the umpire. If the umpire insists he's not calliing, ect then the TC shoud be notifed. If the head coach will not address with the umpire, then there are choices to be made. Maybe his style doesn't fit yours and you should find another team.
I aosl beleive if it persists the respinsibile party should the ejected from the park.
It's called sportsmanship. |
| christheump |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 00:08:29
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
I was speaking to the gamemanship of clock management and the various tactics coaches use to try to run the clock out....yelling balk constantly is not allowed on my field.
Question for Chris regarding balks.....I find NOTHING more annoying than coaches/parents who scream balk after every flippin pitch.....But shouldn't it be universal that all balks be called by the 11U age group?? It just isn't a difficult concept, and half the umpires are very strict like they should be and the other half seem to be clueless as to what a balk even is. I've heard many excuses like a.) they get a warning b.) I'll look for it next time and my favorite c.) "these boys are 11, I'm not calling balks at this age"
I just wish the rules were followed a little closer, or at least enforced with more consistency.
YUP. What's funny is that when I do call balks in some age groups, you would be surprised of how many of those comments about "they're only 11 blue!" I hear. But I still call them. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 22:54:01
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
I was speaking to the gamemanship of clock management and the various tactics coaches use to try to run the clock out....yelling balk constantly is not allowed on my field.
Question for Chris regarding balks.....I find NOTHING more annoying than coaches/parents who scream balk after every flippin pitch.....But shouldn't it be universal that all balks be called by the 11U age group?? It just isn't a difficult concept, and half the umpires are very strict like they should be and the other half seem to be clueless as to what a balk even is. I've heard many excuses like a.) they get a warning b.) I'll look for it next time and my favorite c.) "these boys are 11, I'm not calling balks at this age"
I just wish the rules were followed a little closer, or at least enforced with more consistency. |
| christheump |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 15:02:45
I was speaking to the gamemanship of clock management and the various tactics coaches use to try to run the clock out....yelling balk constantly is not allowed on my field. |
| bluecup |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 13:09:35
Chris, how does OBR 4.06 impact it being "part of the game"?
It seems clear that players and coaches can't deliberately try to cause a pitcher to balk by yelling...and that players on a team shouldn't directly refer to or address players of the opposing team:
4.06
(a) No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or batboy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach's box or on the playing field, or elsewhere --
(1) Incite, or try to incite, by word or sign a demonstration by spectators;
(2) Use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, an umpire, or any spectator;
(3) Call Time or employ any other word or phrase or commit any act while the ball is alive and in play for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit a balk.
(4) Make intentional contact with the umpire in any manner.
(b) No fielder shall take a position in the batter's line of vision, and with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter.
PENALTY: The offender shall be removed from the game and shall leave the playing field, and, if a balk is made, it shall be nullified.
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| christheump |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 10:16:18
Unfortunately, it is all part of the game, like it or not. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 22:07:06
I quoted the wrong messages!! I was referring to an earlier post about coaches who feel the need to scream balk DURING every single windup. |
| PerfectGame |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 20:18:12
I am SO sick of all the yelling and screaming. It's crazy! One of the teams we played this weekend had screaming players, screaming parents, screaming coaches. They literally shouted insults to our players. 10 year old kids ... and these adults were calling them names! What?
I'm really proud of our team. NONE of us sink to that ridiculous level. Our boys don't chant or sing in the dugout, parents are respectful and our coaches never scream and yell and wouldn't dream of trying to interfere with the natural course of a baseball game.
I just don't understand how anybody can think this is how to play a baseball game. It's a disgrace. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 16:58:46
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
quote:
Originally posted by leftyrightyecb
It is not worse than an over-active coach at the third yelling to his runner at second base to "GO" right as the pitcher is at the top of his release or yelling balk.
I always make it a point to call a coach out on this from the stands....if I see this EVER happen and it's done repeatedly, it's a "bush league bovine scat" coaching technique. I owe it to the kids to yell as loud and obnoxiously as I can...."that's REAL classy Coach, REAL classy". To date, I must tell you it works wonders !!! Usually gets the fans laughing at the guilty coach and then he gets embarrassed and stops.
I totally agree it is extremely obnoxious......I think there are two issues here, coaches who feel the need to distract a 9-10-11-12yr old boy. The other issue is one we dealt with this weekend in Tennessee, umpires who just flat out refuse to call a balk no matter how blatant it is!! So our coaches and parents were yelling balk 4-10 times per game but not in effort to distract anyone and it was always after the pitch had been delivered. I had an umpire tell me "he was a HS umpire" then he told me it is perfectly legal to fake a throw to 1st as a lefty.....Not stepping off the rubber but stepping toward 1st and NOT THROWING......I just don't want a coach or parent screaming balk to always been seen as a negative as there are some circumstances where it is not to distract. |
| gasbag |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 13:35:37
quote:
Originally posted by leftyrightyecb
It is not worse than an over-active coach at the third yelling to his runner at second base to "GO" right as the pitcher is at the top of his release or yelling balk.
I always make it a point to call a coach out on this from the stands....if I see this EVER happen and it's done repeatedly, it's a "bush league bovine scat" coaching technique. I owe it to the kids to yell as loud and obnoxiously as I can...."that's REAL classy Coach, REAL classy". To date, I must tell you it works wonders !!! Usually gets the fans laughing at the guilty coach and then he gets embarrassed and stops. |
| gainesnation |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 12:08:18
So so so unsportsmanlike. The parents should be embarassed for doing that. Good to teach the boys not to stoop down to that level. We are 9U too and have encountered this also....more than once.
It just amazes me that people do this. They are 9. Should we pick on a 9 year old to try to win a game? I think not.
quote:
Originally posted by 23sDad
Ran into the "screaming at the pitcher" deal over the weekend. 9u team from one of the "premier" programs in the area. Parents yelling as loud as the players. Our kids wanted to yell back, but we stopped it pretty quickly. Had to explain to them what bush-league means. Again, 9u ball...
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| Spartan4 |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 11:24:26
usually when there is little time left I see coaches switch a pitcher, then after a few pitches switch the catcher...I have seen it 3-4 times this year. It has worked every single time too |
| momshell |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 08:00:12
quote:
Originally posted by oldmanmj
How about the coach that comes out 3 times in 2 innings to try and get the win knowing time is almost up. I saw a coach yesterday his pitcher struggling with a one run lead go over to the umpire and said that he thought his pitcher was injured could he go out. The pitcher looked at him like what are you doing, they talked for awhile, made a change and now the pitcher can warm up all he needs as it was an injury. Then he comes out a couple of batters latter without the first one having been counted as a visit. Opposing team draws within one run, inning over. Pitcher starts next inning, calls timeout, talks to him, goes back. Comes back out next batter switches pitchers and gets out of the inning and starts yelling at his boys to line up, they all run to first and the Umpire looks at him and says what are you doing, 2 minutes left. Guess what, they lost on a walk off single with 2 outs. KARMA!!!!!!!!! Major Bush League at the 14U elite level.
Lucky you! I would love to have an umpire like that call one of our games....have not even come close to getting one of that caliber in a very long time. |
| jongamefan |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 23:35:54
quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
this is bush league theres no question
blame the players yes because above age 10 they know better
bottom line fault the coaches at any age any level because they are allowing it indeed they are encouraging it so get there WIN : they are the true bush leaguers
COACH: not only what you say but im gonna bet dollars against pennys that the coach who lets this all go on @ whatever age group never played competitive baseball at any level hi or low .
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| RACGOFAR |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 21:31:53
"Major Bush League at the 14U elite level."
Maybe, maybe not. If there is going to be a time limit in a competition, then clock management is part of the game strategy at times. If you are losing and close to the time limit with bases loaded and runs allowed is part of the seeding, you are going to go out there twice and then change the pitcher. Same thing if you are the visitor and winning and have a minute to go and the #10 hitter is up. Why wouldn't you make a visit in that situation rather than rick giving a team three more outs to beat you?
I do agree that it is bush to try and be sly about doing it the way you describe. Everybody knows whats going on. You don't really need any pretense when you do it so long as you have visits to use. |
| 23sDad |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 16:57:56
Ran into the "screaming at the pitcher" deal over the weekend. 9u team from one of the "premier" programs in the area. Parents yelling as loud as the players. Our kids wanted to yell back, but we stopped it pretty quickly. Had to explain to them what bush-league means. Again, 9u ball... |
| christheump |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 16:37:00
quote:
2. as for yelling balk- dont do it in high school. if the 3b coach yells balk then by rule the lead runner is called out as its considered coach's interference with play.
You sure about that, or are you strictly talking about FED Rules? |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 15:57:56
How about the coach that comes out 3 times in 2 innings to try and get the win knowing time is almost up. I saw a coach yesterday his pitcher struggling with a one run lead go over to the umpire and said that he thought his pitcher was injured could he go out. The pitcher looked at him like what are you doing, they talked for awhile, made a change and now the pitcher can warm up all he needs as it was an injury. Then he comes out a couple of batters latter without the first one having been counted as a visit. Opposing team draws within one run, inning over. Pitcher starts next inning, calls timeout, talks to him, goes back. Comes back out next batter switches pitchers and gets out of the inning and starts yelling at his boys to line up, they all run to first and the Umpire looks at him and says what are you doing, 2 minutes left. Guess what, they lost on a walk off single with 2 outs. KARMA!!!!!!!!! Major Bush League at the 14U elite level. |
| Gold Glove |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 11:14:44
quote:
Originally posted by UGA12
I personally believe coaching is done in practice and not during the game.
You couldn't be more wrong! I am not sure where you played or for how long but coaching is done at every level before, during and after games. There are so many teaching moments in a game that it would be impossible to recreate in a practice.
Now bush league crap is a different story. No yelling of balk, screaming or chanting during pitch, yelling miss it or mine on a pop up. |
| UGA12 |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 15:08:54
It is fine to have different philosophies. The difference in philosophies is why this discussion is occurring. Caoching with passion and animation is great in a postive way. I just disagree with it while the game is in play. I personally believe coaching is done in practice and not during the game. Good luck this weekend if you're playing and if we're in the same tournament, I'll probably be able to spot your team once you have runners on base. LOL!
quote:
Originally posted by 12uCoach
Sorry, the first base coach should shout GO loud enough for the kid on the next field to hear. You have not failed, you are coaching. Scream to take a bigger lead, I'm COACHING my players, yours can do what they want.
The first base coach should call safe on all bang-bang plays at the bag, the coach should be vocal and animated, not a mime.
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| a1prog |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 14:04:34
two things here;
1. when i coached we never yelled or did anything towards the other team. our concern was us. so we cheered/chattered/whatever- for us. same went for the parents.
2. as for yelling balk- dont do it in high school. if the 3b coach yells balk then by rule the lead runner is called out as its considered coach's interference with play. |
| 12uCoach |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 13:59:28
Sorry, the first base coach should shout GO loud enough for the kid on the next field to hear. You have not failed, you are coaching. Scream to take a bigger lead, I'm COACHING my players, yours can do what they want.
The first base coach should call safe on all bang-bang plays at the bag, the coach should be vocal and animated, not a mime. |
| baseballdad10 |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 13:53:41
You can cheer for your team all day long. Never, ever should you direct anything toward the other team (unless it is respectful). |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 13:35:10
quote:
Originally posted by UGA12
There is absolutely nothing wrong with players standing on the fence cheering for their peers while going up to bat or on deck. Our boys do it, but they are coached for it to cease once the pitcher toes the rubber. This is healthy and builds team work while also showing respect for their competition.
Like others on this post, high have a real problem the over zealous coaching from bases. If you are coaching 10U or older and have to yell "GO" as a pitcher starts his motion just to make sure the boy across the field at first knew he got the steal sign, then you have FAILED as a coach. If you are coaching 1st base and you have to yell "GO" to a kid 4 ft from you when the pitcher starts his motion then you too have FAILED as a coach. Lastly, it is the Umpires job to call a balk not a base ocaches. If you yell balk while a kids is pitching you are as bush as it gets. You have every right to call time and question an Ump for something you think you saw that was a violation, but in no situation should a coach be yelling while a pitcher is in motion.
Coaches like these guys deserve a "High Five" to the face after the game.
Love it !! |
| UGA12 |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 12:43:16
There is absolutely nothing wrong with players standing on the fence cheering for their peers while going up to bat or on deck. Our boys do it, but they are coached for it to cease once the pitcher toes the rubber. This is healthy and builds team work while also showing respect for their competition.
Like others on this post, high have a real problem the over zealous coaching from bases. If you are coaching 10U or older and have to yell "GO" as a pitcher starts his motion just to make sure the boy across the field at first knew he got the steal sign, then you have FAILED as a coach. If you are coaching 1st base and you have to yell "GO" to a kid 4 ft from you when the pitcher starts his motion then you too have FAILED as a coach. Lastly, it is the Umpires job to call a balk not a base ocaches. If you yell balk while a kids is pitching you are as bush as it gets. You have every right to call time and question an Ump for something you think you saw that was a violation, but in no situation should a coach be yelling while a pitcher is in motion.
Coaches like these guys deserve a "High Five" to the face after the game. |
