| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| batman501 |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 12:53:44
What do you think of a 10 year old kid pitching 4 innings in a game on Saturday and then pitching 5 innings in a game on Sunday?
Is this risking damage to the kids pitching arm? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| 25ismyson |
Posted - 04/06/2011 : 13:45:08
1st I want to say I am a huge fan of baseball and especially travel baseball for kids. Did the kid throw too many pitches..YES. However, in my opinion, the real issue is the lack of depth and development in pitching at all levels from the Pros down. Along with too many pitches, improper mechanics and post game arm care, even at 10yrs old, are hurting the kids. I would guess that the team had 12-13 players and 3 coaches, all of which had kids on the team. There are probably only 4 kids "good" enough to pitch and all 4 pitched the max allowed for the tournament. I would bet not one iced their arm after pitching.
There have been numerous studies done on youth pitching and pitch counts. For any criticism that Little League may have, their pitch count rules are the best I have seen. Although somewhat cumbersome to administer, I would follow their guidelines:
1-20 pitches (0) days rest
21-35 (1) days rest
36-50 (2) days rest
51-65 (3) days rest
66-75 (4) days rest
max of 75
If you followed the above as guidelines, for a 3-day/4-game min tournament you would need to have 5-6 pitchers ready. You hardly ever see that many pitchers on a team in any age group below 14U.
And mixed in with all this is how many of these kids are playing in a rec league or some other organized baseball where they are pitching during the week!
Its up to the parents to protect their kids.
Just my opinion.
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| bballman |
Posted - 04/06/2011 : 08:03:23
This situation verges on child abuse. This kid obviously threw way too many pitches in that period of time. We would NEVER have any of our HS varsity pitchers throw that many. And they are 17 & 18 year olds. This is just wrong and a huge contributor to why so many kids are getting hurt and needing surgery at an early age. These coaches should not be allow to coach. No question in my mind. |
| 4bagger |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 23:13:09
We won the game against that team and OUR coaches were upset that the other pitcher was obviously hurting. He was even rubbing his arm between pitches. Don't know where that kids parents were but they needed to speak up and take their kid out of the game or at least demand he be off the mound.
And batman is right, the kid also caught and threw down to 1B and 3B many times. |
| batman501 |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 10:11:38
I saw the games where the kid pitched 4 innings on Saturday and 5 on Sunday. I don't know the pitch count, but I do know there were no innings where there were just a few pitches were thrown. In addition, before pitching the 5 innings on Sunday, the kid was the catcher for a 5 inning game. |
| bstand |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 08:15:01
That is definitely too many innings/pitches in a short stretch. The other consideration is where else is the player positioned when not pitching? If it is middle infield or catching, he is making many more throws. Also, as someone else mentioned, you have to consider pitches thrown, including foul balls. Another thing to consider are warm up pitches. He had to warm up before each game, and he throws approximately 8 warm up pitches between each inning. On our team, we try and throw change up speeds between innings to take those pitches out of the count as well as not allowing the on-deck batter to time the pitcher. There are only so many bullets in the gun.... Why waste them all during the youth years? I would say it is up to the parents to put a stop to that. The kid's future is so much more important than any youth game or tournament. |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 07:39:44
4bagger just curious how did your team do compared to the team you were referring too. I am not at all about winning at this age, but some are. What were the results of your team pitching different guys and them throwing the same one. |
| momshell |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 22:04:56
quote:
Originally posted by 4bagger
Just played in a tournament with no pitching restrictions. We played in 4 games over two days and used 8 different pitchers. One threw 1 inning Sat and 3 Sunday. The rest did one or two. Highest pitch count was the kid who did 4 total and that was 63 pitches. Very reasonable and very smart by the coaches.
Inning count is meaningless because an inning can be anywhere from 3 pitches to a hundred+. No kid at 10 should throw more than 35-50 in a day depending on strength without resting the next day and that means not being the catcher or anything other than the 1B.
One team we played against threw their kid 5 innings in the first game, 3 in the second and then had him against us for 3 more. He was EASILY over 100 pitches because I scouted all the games and lost count in the 70s. That coach should be removed from the team.
Were the kid's parents at this game? The kid is going to have a short baseball pitching career at that pace! |
| 4bagger |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 21:08:30
Just played in a tournament with no pitching restrictions. We played in 4 games over two days and used 8 different pitchers. One threw 1 inning Sat and 3 Sunday. The rest did one or two. Highest pitch count was the kid who did 4 total and that was 63 pitches. Very reasonable and very smart by the coaches.
Inning count is meaningless because an inning can be anywhere from 3 pitches to a hundred+. No kid at 10 should throw more than 35-50 in a day depending on strength without resting the next day and that means not being the catcher or anything other than the 1B.
One team we played against threw their kid 5 innings in the first game, 3 in the second and then had him against us for 3 more. He was EASILY over 100 pitches because I scouted all the games and lost count in the 70s. That coach should be removed from the team. |
| theBaseballBunch |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 16:09:18
have seen several non-sanctioned tournaments that have NO pitching restrictions - up to coach discretion.
have seen teams where kids pitch multiple innings on back to back days AND catch multiple innings those same days. Can't be good for a young arm. |
| leftyrightyecb |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 15:05:53
What is the difference between them pitching days back to back or them pitching one day and then catching the next (if not the same day)? I see plenty of teams doing this. Oh and Cooperstown will let you throw until the 10 year olds arm falls off. No max from day to day. I don't agree with either and that is why at age ten you hopefully are developing all 11 or 12 of your players to take the bump and to catch. |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 13:48:13
quote:
Originally posted by Catch3dad
run from that team and that coach as fast as you can!!!
DITTO !!
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| ecbpappi |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 13:46:54
quote:
Originally posted by batman501
What do you think of a 10 year old kid pitching 4 innings in a game on Saturday and then pitching 5 innings in a game on Sunday?
Is this risking damage to the kids pitching arm?
What tournament allows 10 yr olds to throw 9 innings in two days??? |
| Gwinnett |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 13:28:28
batman, the count is what should be considered. Meaning how many pitchs (including foul balls) did the pitcher pitch. At that age 50-70 is probably what you won't want to exceed in a weekend. Some kids could get out of an inning in 3 pitches and others might take 35+. If your son is a pitcher don't take anyones word for it. Buy a pitch counter and count the pitchs yourself. Then, just tell your coach you don't want your son to exceed __ pitches. I can almost bet that at age 10 pitching 9 innings in a weekend is way to much. The kind of injures that can occur can take a kid out for the season. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 13:24:48
Let's look at it another way. A good pace of pitches per inning is something less than 12.5 per inning.
So assuming this kid was throwing around that, he would have thrown:
Sat - 4 innings (50 pitches)
Sun - 5 innings (63 pitches)
(since 10u pitchers are typically not that polished at hitting their spots all the time, I expect the pitch count was a lot higher than this.)
That is 113 pitches in a two day period. That is way too many pitches for a 10 year old. I think either day's usage was fine, but not the combination of the two. You might could argue it is acceptable if the 4 innings had been thrown on Fri night and the 5 on Sunday. That would have been a day break between the two. Even throwing 2 innings on Sunday after throwing 4 on Sat could have been debated, but not 5.
Just my opinion. |
| Catch3dad |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 13:02:07
run from that team and that coach as fast as you can!!! |
