| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 2playersmom |
Posted - 02/18/2011 : 20:20:13
here's a sticky one maybe so but its got to be asked since we feel have seen some already this short season:
is there really politics involved picking high school teams and then in putting certain players on the feild ? what are the politics about ??
or is this just moaning+groaning from disgruntled families ?? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sthrneagle |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 11:20:50
How is the Booster Club chosen at your high school? Does the Head Coach pick it? |
| AllStar |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 09:41:50
quote:
Originally posted by Season
One perception of HS "politics" may stem from earlier days of REC Travel Ball "politics and daddyball" ...Booster Board members who previously held both travel ball coaching positions and association board positions who esentially used their power and control to self appoint themselves travel coaches and ensure their kid makes a team and/or to select buddies and in some cases with borderline coaches son's who all may have their own agendas with too much control - thus politics/daddyball. Perception is reintroduced in HS when the same folks - former youth board members becoming booster board members to potentially increase their sons chances of making a HS team if he's a borline player....could make the difference in those final few spots and selections of making the team (doesnt guarentee playing time however since the coach wants to win). This environment is common whenever you hear the term in younger travel ball "we are the HS feeder team".
I was never on our park's board, but I do know that if a board member wanted an All Star or travel team, he had to leave the room while they discussed and voted on him. I also know that not every board member got the All Star teams or Travel Teams for which they applied. Often when they didn't they resigned and moved on which tells you a little about their motivation.
That said, there is no law preventing the people complaining about the politics and who never joined the board from picking a position and going for it. Same with the Booster Club. |
| G-Man |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 00:42:23
WOW.... nice post!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Season
One perception of HS "politics" may stem from earlier days of REC Travel Ball "politics and daddyball" ...Booster Board members who previously held both travel ball coaching positions and association board positions who esentially used their power and control to self appoint themselves travel coaches and ensure their kid makes a team and/or to select buddies and in some cases with borderline coaches son's who all may have their own agendas with too much control - thus politics/daddyball. Perception is reintroduced in HS when the same folks - former youth board members becoming booster board members to potentially increase their sons chances of making a HS team if he's a borline player....could make the difference in those final few spots and selections of making the team (doesnt guarentee playing time however since the coach wants to win). This environment is common whenever you hear the term in younger travel ball "we are the HS feeder team".
|
| bmoser |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 20:06:54
Season, I agree with your post, and its what I've been seeing in our County, but its not carrying in to who plays innings at the Varsity level. Successful mature coaches have more leverage to draw the line, and they wont hesitate to do so. Younger unproven Coaches tend to cave a bit more. I hope our current Coach sticks around for a long time. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 14:32:26
quote:
Originally posted by Season
One perception of HS "politics" may stem from earlier days of REC Travel Ball "politics and daddyball" ...Booster Board members who previously held both travel ball coaching positions and association board positions who esentially used their power and control to self appoint themselves travel coaches and ensure their kid makes a team and/or to select buddies and in some cases with borderline coaches son's who all may have their own agendas with too much control - thus politics/daddyball. Perception is reintroduced in HS when the same folks - former youth board members becoming booster board members to potentially increase their sons chances of making a HS team if he's a borline player....could make the difference in those final few spots and selections of making the team (doesnt guarentee playing time however since the coach wants to win). This environment is common whenever you hear the term in younger travel ball "we are the HS feeder team".
I have never said a word to my son's high school coach except, "Nice to meet you, I'm x's dad. Good luck this season." After the team was selected.
Just from the outside looking in, I don't see that there was much politics going on. I almost could have told you who was going to make the team and who wasn't from Day 1 just from knowing 95% of the players. I'd be a little surprised if there was any funny business going on, big donation or other methods of sucking up, but I'm too old to be shocked.
At this point my son is on his own after I coached him for several seasons. He seems to be pretty well prepared. If I had been just trying to grease the skids for him, a) it wouldn't have worked anyway and b) it wouldn't have helped him prepare to achieve the goal he just achieved.
As much as I loved it, I'm relieved to not be coaching anymore. He and I still spend a ton of time at the park together, only now he gets my undivided attention.
Time to sit back and enjoy the ride. And be grateful that I'm not in one of the districts being written about in this thread.
|
| Season |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 13:05:31
One perception of HS "politics" may stem from earlier days of REC Travel Ball "politics and daddyball" ...Booster Board members who previously held both travel ball coaching positions and association board positions who esentially used their power and control to self appoint themselves travel coaches and ensure their kid makes a team and/or to select buddies and in some cases with borderline coaches son's who all may have their own agendas with too much control - thus politics/daddyball. Perception is reintroduced in HS when the same folks - former youth board members becoming booster board members to potentially increase their sons chances of making a HS team if he's a borline player....could make the difference in those final few spots and selections of making the team (doesnt guarentee playing time however since the coach wants to win). This environment is common whenever you hear the term in younger travel ball "we are the HS feeder team".
|
| bballman |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 19:34:06
quote:
Originally posted by LLH
I had someone tell me that college baseball is not much different than travel has become. He said if you want to drive and pay you will find a team. Here was the breakdown compared to travel. Div 1=major, Div 2=AAA,
Div 3=AA, JUCO= A. If you wanted to play bad enough in college do you think you can find a school and make a team not looking for a scholarship?
What I would disagree with here is JUCO = A. Many JUCO programs are more like major. Many, many players go to JUCO's who are good enough to play DI, but don't have the grades. They play JUCO, then transfer to the DI. Many other players go JUCO so they are immediately eligible for the draft. If you go to a 4 year school, you're not eligible till after your Jr year. So, JUCO's are not really a bad option to play competitive ball. They - at least no all - are not equivalent to playing A travel ball. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 18:22:36
quote:
Originally posted by LLH
I had someone tell me that college baseball is not much different than travel has become. He said if you want to drive and pay you will find a team. Here was the breakdown compared to travel. Div 1=major, Div 2=AAA,
Div 3=AA, JUCO= A. If you wanted to play bad enough in college do you think you can find a school and make a team not looking for a scholarship?
I don't completely agree with the JUCO=A level.....Many kids who were drafted or think they will get drafted choose the JUCO schools for the simple reason they are able to get drafted after 1 year, as opposed to 3. |
| LLH |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 09:22:36
I had someone tell me that college baseball is not much different than travel has become. He said if you want to drive and pay you will find a team. Here was the breakdown compared to travel. Div 1=major, Div 2=AAA,
Div 3=AA, JUCO= A. If you wanted to play bad enough in college do you think you can find a school and make a team not looking for a scholarship? |
| bballman |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 09:18:53
There is no question that more scouts come to the summer tournaments than to HS games. However, if your HS team, or the team you are playing has a true player on it, there will be scouts there. Not nearly as many, but they will come. Here's the other thing. If they come to a HS game, there are two teams playing. If they go to a tournament, there may be 200 teams playing. So say there are 100 scouts at the PG tournament. That is roughly 1 scout to 18 kids. (just using 9 kids per team playing). You get two scouts at a HS game, that is one scout per 9 kids. The ratio is actually better at the HS game.
It is also really spotty at some of the big summer tournaments. I'm mostly talking about the PG events, which are the biggest, most highly scouted events out there. These tournaments are spread out over between 25 and 30 fields. You may play some games at the outlying fields and there are NO scouts there. If you play at the ECB complex, you will have a lot more because they can watch 3 games at once (and ECB makes sure their top teams play all their games there). Even at these big events, the scouts are usually there to look at a select group of kids that are on their radar. If you are not one of those kids, you have to hope that you do something, while the right scout is there, to really attract their attention.
So, anyway, I think the big summer tournaments are very important and my son plays all of them. However, I do think HS is important as well. Can you make it without playing on your HS team? If you're good enough, yes - without question. Is there a benefit to playing HS ball? Absolutely. Especially if you play on a team with, or against teams with stud players that colleges and pros are looking at. In either case (summer or HS), you had better make a pretty big impression while the right guy is there or it won't really matter whether you went or not. It is all about performance, skills and attitude.
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| Gwinnett |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 09:18:06
Racgofar, did you pay before your older son played?
This is a good topic to think about before my son ever gets there. Or should I say if he gets there. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 09:00:44
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man
10-BB LOL you make it sound like agreeing with me is a bad thing hahahahahahaha. 
Within the next 3 years 90% of the kids moving to that next level will be selected from their travel ball teams. I went and watched a high school game this evening. Based on what I saw out of both teams. There was MAYBE 2 D 1 prospects and 2 that may have the opportunity to move past high school baseball based on that game.
Scouts and recruiters can better spend their monies/time hitting the travel baseball tournaments throughout the country and find all the top talent they need.
quote:
Originally posted by 10 BB
G-Man;
I hate to say it but I agree with you, why would a scout, college or pro go to a HS to see 1 or 2 players when he could go to a showcase and see 40 or 50 elite players.
On most HS teams there are 1 and sometimes only 1/2 a player that really fits the bill of playing past HS. The coach will more than likely take the kid that he feels he could promote the best in order to get that college scholarship so he can pat himself on the back and tell everyone "look what I did for little Johhny, and I can do the same for you". Summer ball at the HS level is a JOKE it's nothing more than a pay check for the coach. Most people are so happy that there kid is on the HS team they will drink all the koolaid the coach serves them!!
In California alot of that states top players have stepped away from HS ball and are playing Elite Travel(showcase) because most of the coaches at the HS level are nothing more than GLORY HOUNDS looking to continue in the lifestyle that has carried them this far which is the local BULLY. These coaches want all these parents to know they are in charge and don't question him or your son will be benched. My sons coach say's he is very approachable and will talk about anything other than playing time. He says if you want to talk about playing time then just turn in the uniform!!!
My son has been offered the chance to play for one of Ga. top elite teams for this summer and this includes games at colleges such as UGA/GA TECH/UNIV. OF TENN/AUBURN UNIV./KENN. ST./GA SOUTHERN/GA ST./MERCER UNIV./GA COLLEGE/NORTH GA/COLUMBUS ST./GA PERIMETER/PIEDMONT COLLEGE/SOUTHERN POLYTECH/OGLETHORPE UNIV./BREWTON PARKER/ARMSTRONG ATLANTIC UNIV so I ask all of you which do you think is better for a kid looking to play past HS?
That's all well and good. I think there is a similar dynamic at work in basketball as well. It's not proof that the elite players aren't playing for their schools. How many of the, say, top 20 Seniors in GA aren't playing for their schools because of politics and/or money?
I get that if you are looking to be seen by the scouts, College or Pro, the High School team isn't the venue. I think kids' reasons for playing for their HS don't have a lot to do with getting a scholarship and/or drafted. Can't speak for the dads.
|
| itsaboutbb |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 00:34:43
quote:
Originally posted by baseballparentof2
The coach for our high school is 100% about the money and who you know. My son went out for pitcher only and when cut he asked him why. 2 reasons he gave him- you didn't pitch well in the tryouts and you should have played summer ball!!! Which as I understand a coach can not make it mandatory for you to play summer ball. As far as he didn't pitch well is BS. He faced the top 7 hitters (he asked to face the top 7). Did not let up a hit. Another kid pitches right after him to the same 7 batters- walks 4 and 3 are hit to the fence. Both are pitchers only. He took the other kid because?????? MONEY and the fact that the kid played summer play (which was more money to the program).
Sucks for my kid because he would have loved to play for his HS and being he is a senior he doesn't have another chance. I am not some parent who just blames other because my kid didn't make it. My kid can pitch. And there are many others from that school that can say this coach is about money, money, money, money. We would have been glad to pay the "dues" when he made the team. But I REFUSED to sign the "PLEDGE" that we would pay well before tryouts.
The fundraiser lady has a son on the team and he is not high school baseball material. He might play 3 innings all season but since his mom is on the board he automatically makes the team. So not right. But it is what it is and my kid will play travel this summer before going off to college.
Would be nice to know what school |
| G-Man |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 23:49:25
10-BB LOL you make it sound like agreeing with me is a bad thing hahahahahahaha.
Within the next 3 years 90% of the kids moving to that next level will be selected from their travel ball teams. I went and watched a high school game this evening. Based on what I saw out of both teams. There was MAYBE 2 D 1 prospects and 2 that may have the opportunity to move past high school baseball based on that game.
Scouts and recruiters can better spend their monies/time hitting the travel baseball tournaments throughout the country and find all the top talent they need.
quote:
Originally posted by 10 BB
G-Man;
I hate to say it but I agree with you, why would a scout, college or pro go to a HS to see 1 or 2 players when he could go to a showcase and see 40 or 50 elite players.
On most HS teams there are 1 and sometimes only 1/2 a player that really fits the bill of playing past HS. The coach will more than likely take the kid that he feels he could promote the best in order to get that college scholarship so he can pat himself on the back and tell everyone "look what I did for little Johhny, and I can do the same for you". Summer ball at the HS level is a JOKE it's nothing more than a pay check for the coach. Most people are so happy that there kid is on the HS team they will drink all the koolaid the coach serves them!!
In California alot of that states top players have stepped away from HS ball and are playing Elite Travel(showcase) because most of the coaches at the HS level are nothing more than GLORY HOUNDS looking to continue in the lifestyle that has carried them this far which is the local BULLY. These coaches want all these parents to know they are in charge and don't question him or your son will be benched. My sons coach say's he is very approachable and will talk about anything other than playing time. He says if you want to talk about playing time then just turn in the uniform!!!
My son has been offered the chance to play for one of Ga. top elite teams for this summer and this includes games at colleges such as UGA/GA TECH/UNIV. OF TENN/AUBURN UNIV./KENN. ST./GA SOUTHERN/GA ST./MERCER UNIV./GA COLLEGE/NORTH GA/COLUMBUS ST./GA PERIMETER/PIEDMONT COLLEGE/SOUTHERN POLYTECH/OGLETHORPE UNIV./BREWTON PARKER/ARMSTRONG ATLANTIC UNIV so I ask all of you which do you think is better for a kid looking to play past HS?
|
| 6bomber |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 22:57:33
10bb sounds like the coach isn't flexible. not sure what to do? these are the first group of kids who have grown up playing travelball. i know mine has been playing since 7u (starting 13u), and by his senior year it will probably be better to play showcases than the state finals. i know your situation and it may cause a ripple. a lot of kids are going across town. |
| RACGOFAR |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 21:53:11
quote:
Originally posted by oldmanmj
I have witnessed what you both may think is impossible or unthinkable at the high school level. Your booster club Pres can say I understand, but your coach can still not pick you to be on the team. Keep both eyes open and you pocket book ready, it is at every program. How they choose to deal with those that don't pay varies at every school.
I've had my eyes open for the last 3 years at my older son's AAAAA HS. Haven't seen what you have I'm glad to report. |
| 10 BB |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 19:52:35
G-Man;
I hate to say it but I agree with you, why would a scout, college or pro go to a HS to see 1 or 2 players when he could go to a showcase and see 40 or 50 elite players.
On most HS teams there are 1 and sometimes only 1/2 a player that really fits the bill of playing past HS. The coach will more than likely take the kid that he feels he could promote the best in order to get that college scholarship so he can pat himself on the back and tell everyone "look what I did for little Johhny, and I can do the same for you". Summer ball at the HS level is a JOKE it's nothing more than a pay check for the coach. Most people are so happy that there kid is on the HS team they will drink all the koolaid the coach serves them!!
In California alot of that states top players have stepped away from HS ball and are playing Elite Travel(showcase) because most of the coaches at the HS level are nothing more than GLORY HOUNDS looking to continue in the lifestyle that has carried them this far which is the local BULLY. These coaches want all these parents to know they are in charge and don't question him or your son will be benched. My sons coach say's he is very approachable and will talk about anything other than playing time. He says if you want to talk about playing time then just turn in the uniform!!!
My son has been offered the chance to play for one of Ga. top elite teams for this summer and this includes games at colleges such as UGA/GA TECH/UNIV. OF TENN/AUBURN UNIV./KENN. ST./GA SOUTHERN/GA ST./MERCER UNIV./GA COLLEGE/NORTH GA/COLUMBUS ST./GA PERIMETER/PIEDMONT COLLEGE/SOUTHERN POLYTECH/OGLETHORPE UNIV./BREWTON PARKER/ARMSTRONG ATLANTIC UNIV so I ask all of you which do you think is better for a kid looking to play past HS? |
| baseballparentof2 |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 19:47:58
quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
bbpof2, kinda hard to believe your kid asked to pitch against the top 7 kids, got them out the way you described............. and didnt make the team. That seems kinda like fantasy land
Yes he did ask for the top hitters. He knew he had nothing to lose but wanted to prove to HIMSELF he was good enough. I can honestly say that is EXACTLY what happened. I even spoke with the coach about it and he said it wasn't good enough. My son can pitch and has many people tell him he is good enough to pitch in college. So he will spend the summer playing travel and hope we can get him noticed. Anyone interested in a RHP that is almost 6'4.5", 200 lbs? |
| loveforthegame25 |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 18:46:49
bbpof2, kinda hard to believe your kid asked to pitch against the top 7 kids, got them out the way you described............. and didnt make the team. That seems kinda like fantasy land |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 17:38:32
Well said everyone above.....But to say that a truly "elite" player couldn't afford to play on the super elite HS showcase teams isn't realistic....There are 11U teams who will pay a players way if they are good enough, so I would assume a 17-18 year old who had a legit shot at D1 or getting drafted would get to play on a really good team. Like was said above, most of these coaches have to win to keep the job....Play the best player possible!! |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 15:51:23
bballmom and RAGGOFAR, I have witnessed what you both may think is impossible or unthinkable at the high school level. Your booster club Pres can say I understand, but your coach can still not pick you to be on the team. I have also seen from a very recent State AAAAA Championship team cut a top notch player now playing college, because he didn't support the program $$$$$. Travel ball is a personal choice, it is a private program and you make the choice. The school you got is not your choice and it is a public program. Keep both eyes open and you pocket book ready, it is at every program. How they choose to deal with those that don't pay varies at every school. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 15:16:18
I'm guessing that most of the politicking occurs on the Freshman and JV team, but when it comes to Varsity, the best players are on the field. I've heard that Schools take a lot more Freshman players than they really need to pacify the politico's and to raise more cash. I'd likely take the same path if I ran a H.S. program. Less grief, more brownie points, and more cash for the Varsity team. Less chance of missing a future star too. Downside is less reps per player. |
| baseballparentof2 |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 15:08:24
The coach for our high school is 100% about the money and who you know. My son went out for pitcher only and when cut he asked him why. 2 reasons he gave him- you didn't pitch well in the tryouts and you should have played summer ball!!! Which as I understand a coach can not make it mandatory for you to play summer ball. As far as he didn't pitch well is BS. He faced the top 7 hitters (he asked to face the top 7). Did not let up a hit. Another kid pitches right after him to the same 7 batters- walks 4 and 3 are hit to the fence. Both are pitchers only. He took the other kid because?????? MONEY and the fact that the kid played summer play (which was more money to the program).
Sucks for my kid because he would have loved to play for his HS and being he is a senior he doesn't have another chance. I am not some parent who just blames other because my kid didn't make it. My kid can pitch. And there are many others from that school that can say this coach is about money, money, money, money. We would have been glad to pay the "dues" when he made the team. But I REFUSED to sign the "PLEDGE" that we would pay well before tryouts.
The fundraiser lady has a son on the team and he is not high school baseball material. He might play 3 innings all season but since his mom is on the board he automatically makes the team. So not right. But it is what it is and my kid will play travel this summer before going off to college. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 14:34:33
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man
Recruiters and Scouts have X dollars to spend on trips per year to scout players. If either of these go to a high school game to see 2 or 3 players its going to cost them X dollars. If they go to an Elite travel ball tournament to see 30 to 40 prospect players its still going to cost them X dollars.
Times are changing. 5 years ago high school baseball was where you got noticed for college and the draft. Now however most of these people that make the decisions that will effect a players chance at the next level whether it be college or the draft has transitioned over to travel ball and the showcase tournaments it produces.
As for the comment that you will be remembered longer playing for your high school. I am not sure about everyone else but I didnt play high school ball to be remembered. I played to get recruited to play college ball. Also once you hit these showcase travel ball teams. Trust me there is no daddy ball going on with the elite programs. Once you hit 14u the daddy ball pretty much goes right out the window because the game has passed up dads knowledge base of the game as it should be played.
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
An earlier post on the general forum has some comments on only playing elite level ball vs. HS ball....Mandatory pay to play could very well drive the really really elite kids to playing full time travel with other talented players as well.
A lot of people on the board have been paying $1K-$2K per year or more to play travel since their kids were 9 or younger. From the sound of it, they've done it to play for a bunch of daddy-ball practitioners in tournaments run by mercenaries who would run over a kid to pick up a nickel. And now some booster club dues and fund raisers are going to run people off?
I would bet that for 95%, probably more, of the players, the goal of playing travel in the first place is to play for their high school. I doubt that the money is going to run a large number of them off.
10 years from now wayyyyyyyyyyy more people are going to remember that your son played for his HS than that he played for whatever travel team he played for. Especially if he plays for a different travel team every year.
Just my (non-mandatory) $.02.
I was talking about what the player and those around him will remember 10 years from now.
I also said 95%. There are always exceptions.
I was also talking about the ages leading up to high school and my point about the daddy ball and tournament directors is that they are consistent themes of complaint on the board.
My real point was that there is not going to be some mass exodus away from the high school teams, especially over the dues.
My son had some nice individual highlights in All Star and travel, including clutch pitching performances, great defensive plays, and a couple of really clutch hits deep in tournaments. All of those were blown out of the water by just making his HS team. Your mileage may vary.
|
| RACGOFAR |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 13:00:04
There is no mandatory requirement that kids pay to play high school sports. In fact its just the opposite, programs cannot require players to pay. Yes, there are dues, but if you really pressed the issue, your booster club President and Coach would tell you that dues are voluntary.
We can start a whole new thread on what happensif you don't pay, but I can't imagine any HS coach, whose very job depends on winning, would play weaker players over better ones. And I doubt a coach would not use a player who could help him win because his family can't afford to pay voluntary dues. If htere are any coaches out there doing that, they should not be coaching.
That's one of the main reasons to me that you have booster clubs, so the coaches are insulated from knowing who can and cannot pay and who is and is not bringing in money to the program thorugh sponsorships/donations. But I'm sure many of them are directly involved in their dugout club operations by necessity. |
