| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Peanutsr |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 12:16:50
At what age does it become expected that a batter may get thrown at?
If a kid crowds the plate I can understand a little brush back or chin music down to 11 or 12. Do coaches ever plunk kids at 14,15....17? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| oldschooldad |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 16:09:47
The name of the thread is "plunking batters". I read that to mean hitting a batter on purpose. IMO, no call for that in Youth Travel ball.
Hitting a batter accidently because he is too close to the plate or because trying to pitch inside is part of the game. The plate belongs to the pitcher as much as the hitter. |
| jdrew |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 14:06:51
As a former college pitcher, "plunking" a batter for showing up a pitcher or taking up for a teammate definitely came into play at that level. This was a RARE case indeed. At the youth level, the only time I was ever instructed to throw at a batter was strategical (not at the head but the waist): on a suicide squeeze or steal of home (less than the bases loaded), it is to move the batter out of the way for a play at the plate. If the batter is hit, it was considered a "dead" ball and the runners would have to go back. Not sure how the rules are now but maybe someone more knowledgeable could shed some light on this. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 11:07:31
Mine is 11U, and while I feel he is a pretty good pitcher he does have a few each season get away from him. Last year we played 70 games and I think he hit 6 kids, 8 including the first 4-5 practice games. Almost all of these resulted in him trying to pitch inside, the other 2 were him not quite having mastered the LL curve. Once again, I do believe there are coaches out there who direct pitchers to drill the batter, but BStand made a great point about these kids watching YouTube for hours on end. I am friends with several of these 11U, 12U, 13U kids on facebook and it isn't that often but at least every couple weeks someone puts a video of a baseball fight, or a football fight, or even a sucker punch with no sports involved. If you search "hit by pitch" you will get 5250 results on youtube, including the Stevens county HS incident where the catcher ducked and let the umpire get hit with a high 80's low 90's fastball IN THE FACE!! |
| seminole tony |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 10:26:03
I think this is getting into the realm that a coach or child is intentionally trying to end a kids life or baseball season. It's not, plunking here in "little league" (8u-14u) is mainly a pitch at a kids backside or in on his hands. No kid or coach is going headhunting at this age. We're throwing out incidents of big league happenings and think that its happening all over travel ball, it's not. Relax guys!
Lets start a new thread on hard slides into catchers and keep the boiling points up.LOL |
| 22202 |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 09:02:28
This is just my $0.02....From what I have read the feeling of "it's part of the game" is an easy way for people to accept their kid hitting another kid. When their kid gets hit I bet it is another story all together. I can tell you if my kid gets hit because of an order from a coach or a retaliatory play I will be livid and like Spartan4 the flipping out would commence. Things are said on here like maybe the pitcher throws one inside and it "gets away" and hits them? I call BS, if your pitcher is good enough to drill a hitter on command than they are good enough to throw an inside pitch without hitting the batter. I think anyone that sees this part of the game as acceptable should picture their kid in the hospital getting xrays of their face or head after they have been hit and then decide if it is "part of the game". I know I don't want to see that happen to my or anybody elses kid from playing A GAME. |
| bstand |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 22:12:45
I don't think we are giving the kids the credit they are due. We live in the internet age. Youtube, social networking sites, etc. Young people are not naive as young people of just 1 generation ago. To think that a highly competitive player, regardless of upbringing and direction of coaches, parents, clergy, whatever, can't or won't figure out how to handle their business when it is warranted, is not only naive but ignorant. These young men will defend themselves. They will also defend their team mates, which many of them consider family as well they should. Too much emphasis is being put on the coach in this situation. I would NEVER direct a pitcher to hit another kid. I also am not ill-informed enough to think that they wouldn't be able to make a determination like that on their own. |
| seminole tony |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 17:29:04
Spartan, I agree totally!
Plunking a batter is a re-action to a previous action. Cause and effect. I would like to think we all teach our children better.
Bandit hawk, I can tell you of a incedent with some one you may know about that touches close to this subject. Won't bring up here though. Great family and just a lapse in a young mans normally happy and cheerful disposition. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 16:39:58
Bandit, you know mine is a ball magnet...you know better than anyone else on here that I would FLIP OUT!!!..he is always the most hit kid on his team...I hate it when he gets drilled, but I also try to teach him not to do the things that attract a plunking. He plays SS so he knows well before the game starts if he slides with his cleats up it is coming back to him. If he makes a slap tag and gets drilled the next AB I will be mad, but I won't be shocked. Also, I never said that this is the right thing to teach, but MANY coaches do teach it....By acting like it doesn't happen I think we do our boys little good, so say we allow our boys to fist pump the big plays, chant during a windup, and perform takeout slides when there are no plays. Sure at this age most opposing coaches don't do anything about it. But in HS or later the coaches don't have to say anything....The boys will do it on their own....And maybe by teaching our boys a little class at a younger age(which most parents/coaches do!!)we completely avoid the crazy hormonal 17yr old that throws 92 throwing at your head. Again these plunkings are retaliatory, not because a pitcher got bored. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 13:26:35
I was just giving an example, like we both agree dirty teams fade fast. I just believe parents have some responsibility in how their kids act and what they do, many baseball moms have very little baseball knowledge but they know when their son does something wrong!! The point I believe a few of us on were trying to make is a pitcher doesn't just decide to peg someone. Getting even isn't the right thing to teach, but it doesn't come up when opposing teams show some class. I have never heard about a pitcher drilling an opposing batter because he thought the hitter was gonna show him up. |
| TAZ980002 |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 13:13:16
OK Spartan4, let's say your nephew is batting and our coach tells my son to plunk him. How are you, as L.B.'s caretaker, going to react to this?
I know that if my son is intentionally plunked at the directive of another coach, someone is going to need to stand between me and that coach. I don't get fired up easily but that would be the express lane to my boiling point. |
| cam1 |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 13:00:15
Cmon man. Both those incidents were in the MLB. Those guys were all getting paid. Yes there are plenty of unwritten rules in baseball. I also believe that dirty teams do fade fast. I just can't fathom having a 14-15 yr old kid throw at another 14-15yr old as a coach. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 12:50:17
I believe there was a HUGE debate a couple years ago about Joba Chamberlain's excessive fist pumping and screaming after getting a big out. And if I recall Jeter took a couple in the ribs the following game, probably not a coincidence. A-Rod slapped the ball out of the pitchers hand a couple years ago, next AB?? Ribs.....Should these pitchers be out of baseball??
Also, while it is fine for some coaches to coach more than baseball and life lessons, we shouldn't assume that all parents want that. Most of our boys should learn how to act from their parents and teachers, also many kids go to church where there are many positive role models. While I do expect our coaches to make our boys demonstrate good sportsmanship the primary reason we selected our coaches and instructors is to make our boys better baseball players. A hitting instructor is not a morals/life coach. Like Seminole Tony says above, dirty players do not last long..... |
| seminole tony |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 11:06:04
First off I didn't invent "plunking" just replying to a topic.
We have to understand its part of baseball. With that being said...
I'm not saying it's always right to throw at a batter. It's just part of the game. It doesn't happen often but it still happens. Reasons I gave are again part of the "common baseball unwritten rules". As far as my points 1-4 are you saying that these things don't happen? That's what sets up the whole plunking issue. You may coach your child or team better and these may never apply to you but not everyone teaches their team this way. There are other issues that occur that start beanings also:
5. Slides to take out second basemen even though there is no play.
6. High cleats(metal) to hurt players
7. Intentionally stepping down the first baseman's calf while running down the line.
Plenty of others that we could probably start a new thread on.
I believe the start of this post was
"At what age does it become expected that a batter may get thrown at?"
Kids see it on TV watching games and as they start to grasp the concepts around baseball they will understand why and where "Plunking" takes place. We may not like it but it will always be a part of the game.
Do you think that by saying you don't like fighting in hockey that it will stop?? If you don't like it, don't play or instigate it.
By doing it, your not intending to do harm to anyone. Just sending the message that you don't like what someone on the opposing team has done(show boating or intentional malice).
Play ball cleanly and the way its suppose to be done and it may never happen to a child or team.
Teams and players that play dirty ball don't tend to last long.
As I have said earlier, My son will be pulled if he ever starts an issue using dirty ball playing. But in the same breathe he knows what to do to protect his teammates. |
| coach0512 |
Posted - 02/09/2011 : 00:26:04
Seminole, that was the point of my post. The absurdity of a batter throwing a bat at a pitcher.
I hope I am misreading your intent in your posts because all of them seem to advocate intentionally throwing at a batter. It's wrong,plain and simple. Saying it's part of the game does not make it right. I hope you don't coach and teach your kids to play that way.
As far as points 1-4 if any of my players did any of those things they sit for at least an inning if not the entire game. Coaches are teaching so much more than just baseball. We are teaching life lessons and coaches that discipline their own players for yelling at opposing pitchers, chanting to distract opposing players, negative chants, insults, taunting, etc are the best coaches you can find.
And are you serious about that kid who got hit in the eye in catch's post?!? In the wrong area? HE WAS 24 FEET AWAY FROM HOME PLATE! And was not even looking in the direction of the pitcher or catcher. That pitcher had to turn his body away from home plate to throw the ball at a kid who's back was turned to him. It was not an errant throw, it was a deliberate throw to inflict harm. MLB diagrams show that the batters boxes should be 74' apart from each other but do not show where they should be in relation to home plate. Without knowing the field they were playing on it is possible the batter was in the batters box, closer or further from home plate. In any case he was not close enough to home plate to warrant being thrown at intentionally.
Saying "It's Baseball!" is no excuse to accept the stupid things that are done.
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| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 11:39:50
good post RACGOFAR.....when we played in Panama City this summer the team from Texas yelled BALK!!!!! during just about every delivery.....I thought it was pretty trashy and you know as well as I do how long that would last in adult baseball |
| seminole tony |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:07:32
quote:
Originally posted by coach0512
A pitcher doesn't like a kid pumping his fist after a homerun so he hits him next time?? A silent fist pump with no physical contact to another player is offset by a 50 or 60 mph fastball to the ribs and some people here think thats ok??
Coach 0512,
Pitchers don't mind the silent fist pumps, it's the other things.
1. Standing on home plate well after the ball clears the outfield fence watching.
2. Slow trots around the bags stopping to jump with both feet on each bag.
3. Talking smack to the third baseman when he's told "good hit".
4. Coming to the plate and pointing the bat to the outfield like he's Babe Ruth.
As far as throwing the bat at the pitcher...lets get real. When have you seen that in a real ball game??
If he wants to get back at the pitcher, he drives the ball right back at him.
We respect good hitters by walking them.
We respect good pitchers by getting your hit and getting back to the dugout without a dog and pony show. |
| RACGOFAR |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 08:01:01
When a batter is taught/told to crowd the plate and the pitcher refuses to give up the inside corner, batters sometimes get hit. When a team intentionally chants and yells and screams like a 7yr old softball team to distract the pitcher, and it works, nobody should be surprised if a batter gets plunked. What should and should not be done for a certain age level starts with the coach, not the players. If a coach is going to allow things to happen that put his players at risk of injury, intentionally or otherwise, then its on him.
These things generally happen when the unwritten rues of the game are broken or the coach allows them to be broken. |
| seminole tony |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 07:02:28
Catch,
nice article but the batter was in the wrong! He should have been no where near the plate during warm ups. The pitcher was wrong for throwing at the head.
Baseball has rules for where a batter should be during pitcher warm ups. Its the cheaters that want a edge that take it on the rump. Since 7KP kids have been told to stay away from home plate. We have all seen warm ups and the ball can and will fly everywhere and anywhere. Stay near the dugout and swing away, just not near the plate.
This goes back to batters looking down at catchers signals trying to steal signs. You just don't do it. It's a baseball given.
I don't know the age mix of the kids of these parents commenting but we let them play USSSA ball so they can steal bases, lead-off, not wear batting face masks and other rules so its more like big league ball. Plinking a hitter is just part of it as they get older. I bet there's not a high school coach or above that hasn't call a high tight one or a retaliation pitch for something that's happened in a game. May not be politically correct or liked but neither is spitting,or rubbing the jewels on the field.
IT'S BASEBALL.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_20_224/ai_62215155/
I wonder exactly how many players have actually been seriously hurt by being hit by a pitch(on purpose)? That is versus the total number of players playing(Minor, Major, etc.).
Article is 11 years old and I know that plinking batters has probably been around since the start of the game. Just do it right. No head shots.
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| coach0512 |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 23:39:04
A pitcher doesn't like a kid pumping his fist after a homerun so he hits him next time?? A silent fist pump with no physical contact to another player is offset by a 50 or 60 mph fastball to the ribs and some people here think thats ok??
OK. How about this; A pitcher pumps his fist after striking out the batter to end the inning with the bases loaded. The next time that kids up to bat he throws his bat at the pitcher and plunks him in the ribs.
I wonder what the umps and coaches would do then?
Retaliating by hitting a batter on purpose is just as dumb and childish.
Whambold- Part of the game. Get used to it. Maybe throwing the bat at the pitcher or carrying it to 1B to retaliate for a slap tag will become part of the game of the future and we should get used to it. |
| Catch3dad |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 22:59:01
quote:
Originally posted by seminole tony
Side note...My sons warm up pitches do tend to getta little wild towards those batters whom like to step up close to home during pitcher warm ups   .
Take your warm up swings in the on deck circle where your suppose to.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_20_224/ai_62215155/
A lot of tough talk about what some says is part of the game but for one player at least, the game almost cause him his life.
Seminole Tony,
NO PLACE FOR THIS IN BASEBALL!!!!! |
| seminole tony |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 21:05:47
Intentionally hitting a batter is a very rare occurrence. Not saying it doesn't happen but just not very often. For a coach to call it at this level(below high school)is wrong. Telling a pitcher to send a little chin music is another story.
My son has taken it upon himself to support and back up his teammates "when" it is needed. Nothing has to be said to him. Someone steps out of line intentionally to hurt a teammate, friend, family member he WILL leave a "two seamer" tattoo in the middle of your buttocks. That being said, I will be the first one to pull my son if he were to ever "start" the playing of dirty ball! Beat the team on the field cleanly. Don't stoop to their level of baseball. This is still kids playing and no one should ever want to hurt child. It should never reach this in a ball game if the umps are doing what their being paid to do.
As far a celebrating on the field after a homerun... a slow trot, fist pump, team celebration on home are all acceptable in my book. Running backwards around the bases, pointing at opposing players or coaches, loud verbal comments are bush league. Play like this wasn't your first one.
Talking with a relative from up-state New York recently about kids and sports and he mentioned that they're taught to be "enforcers" in hockey at a young age. Nothing dirty, just an aspect of that particular game.
Side note...My sons warm up pitches do tend to getta little wild towards those batters whom like to step up close to home during pitcher warm ups .
Take your warm up swings in the on deck circle where your suppose to. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 16:12:35
Show some emotion isn't a great message to give a kid.....IMO....You have lost your mind if you don't believe that showing up a pitcher will get you nailed. We can sit on a message board and say what is the right thing to do all day(eject the coach, ban the kid), but in competitive baseball tempers are short. At the higher levels showing up a pitcher can and will get you hit, we can say ban the coaches but the pitchers will do this on their own. It is our there, on almost every level....Same with slap tags and stealing signs.. Right or wrong it can be avoided %99 of the time, and it is because coaches telling a pitcher to intentionally hit a batter isn't exactly a common occurrence. |
| cam1 |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 15:13:07
I'm in the it shouldn't be done until they're gettin paid camp. We had 2 incidents last year in 14u. 1- We were playing a team that we had beat, coming up with 5 minutes left in the game as the home team. The umpire made us start our at bat. The 1st hitter got the" you better be ready " from the catcher and was plunked in the ribs. I went ballistic when he got to 1st base and told me what was said. We played that team a couple more times and never lost to them. We also never hit one of there players. 2- We played an ex pro players team. We had a player on 2nd base, he was relaying signs to the batter. The ex-pro player suddenly shouts from the dugout " Hey boy you know you can get hurt doing that" I couldn't beleive he had just said that multiple times I might add. Our next batter gets drilled, all heck breaks loose as my parents start yelling. The boys father who ended up getting hit is a coach and he had to go to his car. Our kids wanted to retaliate, even got into an argument with our pitchers father who told his son to hit there 1st hitter. That didn't happen. I told our guys the best way was to just whipem on the scoreboard. Which we did by run ruling them, and the boy who got plunked hit a grandslam his next at bat. I can't beleive any coach could have a kid hit another kid. We have 2 boys that throw mid 80's imagine what would happen if one hit a youngman in the face in retaliation. |
| 12uCoach |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 14:39:51
Actually had a kid tossed at 11U years ago for laughing when he accidentally hit a kid. Our fault as coaches, we were trying to get him to pitch inside, so we would call him names when he didn't pitch inside when we asked for it. Eventually he figured out that we didn't care if he plunked a kid because it got away from him and when it happened he laughed at it... Live and learn.
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| w.whambold |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 13:26:49
quote:
Originally posted by Peanutsr
At what age does it become expected that a batter may get thrown at?
If a kid crowds the plate I can understand a little brush back or chin music down to 11 or 12. Do coaches ever plunk kids at 14,15....17?
yes. period. part of the game. get use to it. |
