| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| oldschooldad |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 13:58:20
What is the pulse of the Travel Ball nation regarding attending team practices? If a team has set the expectation about everyone practicing together as a team but some players don't attend, what should the coach do? What should the players and parents do? Is it fair to have the missing players miss some playing time? I know that sometimes the situation regarding why someone misses practices aren't made public but mandatory means mandatory. Doesn't travel season start in January? Any thoughts??? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| nastycurve |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 14:12:23
very well said lefty |
| Leftypitcher |
Posted - 01/15/2011 : 19:39:22
PATbb,
How about both types? Mental for not knowing the signs, (1st base not knowing the sign for a pick off attempt by the pitcher or catcher, missing the hit and run sign and the runners get caught stealing, batters not making contact on a sac bunt and watching a strike go by, etc.), or how about not calling for the ball on pop ups or fly balls and causing a collision or worse yet nobody catching the ball, or not knowing single cuts vs double cuts on throws from the outfielders, or not knowing who covers second on the throw from the catcher, or the pitcher not looking the third base runner back before throwing to first on a come-backer, etc..
Physical errors for too few times doing something that needs improvement (running down a base stealer, 1st baseman flipping the ball to the pitcher instead of hard throws when the pitcher covers first, getting a big enough lead for stealing, learning how to read the pitcher's delivery to avoid getting caught in a run down, setting your feet before a throw to avoid the wild throw, etc.).
There are so many things that players need to learn during team practices it is almost impossible to think of them all right now.
Those are just a few of the many errors than can occur when you do not practice with your team, but just show up for the games.
At this level of play, the number one thing that will sink a team is the number of errors they commit. One error in a bracket pool game at the wrong time can make the road to the playoff round in most tournaments very very difficult.
An honest error is having a ball slip out of a fielders hand because the ball is wet because the grass is wet, or getting hit by a batted ball while running to a base (if the runner is in front of the fielder), or a pass ball on the catcher due a really bad bounce, etc. Those things happen and not much can be done about them.
But once again, just my two cents worth. |
| PATbb |
Posted - 01/14/2011 : 21:43:58
lefty,
what is an honest error Vs error caused by missing practices? are we talking physical error Vs mental errors?
quote:
Originally posted by Leftypitcher
I am not saying that an honest error should cause a revolt on a team, but errors caused by missing to many practices is inexcusable because it affects a lot more than just the offending player, it can affect a whole teams win loss record, and more importantly team morale.
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| 11UFAN |
Posted - 01/14/2011 : 16:02:29
As with anything, things can be taken to an extreme. I know of many parents that put baseball (practice & lessons) above just about everything. In my household baseball is a huge commitment and you should make every practice or game. As long as my sons are making A's and B's in school and staying out of trouble then they will be there. This is ultimately the parents call. If a parent puts non-school related activities above baseball then they should expect it to affect their sons playing time.
But bmoser makes an excellent point. There is such a thing as over doing it with practices, especially during the season when you are playing 60-80 games. Limiting practices and making those you have productive and fun for the 12 and under teams is the coaches responsibility. |
| loveforthegame25 |
Posted - 01/14/2011 : 10:31:56
My son played for 12ucoach, that seemed to be a pretty good system. Every kid has some situations where they are sick, PARENTS wont let them come to practice for some family situation (usually at the younger ages) etc. Every member of the team knew the ground rules from day 1. If you have a habitual misser some action needs to be taken........ |
| bmoser |
Posted - 01/14/2011 : 09:28:03
By 13U, over 75% of kids who played organized baseball (Rec and Travel)have quit. Some of them very good players who could have progressed further along, and perhaps even made the High School team. One I know just made the Freshman team, but is giving it up anyway.
I've asked many of these players why. They said it was boring. The "it" they were referring to was practice. They all said the games were fun, but they had to endure too much practice time in relationship to the amount of game time.
I read excerpts from a study on childhood obesity recently that said 80% of the time a kid spends on a sports team is spent standing around, and not playing the game at all.
If a player isn't having fun, he WILL quit. Very few kids are driven to the point to where they will endure excessive practices(by whatever their definition of excessive is, not yours) for very long.
Parents and Coaches...be careful. Don't overdo it, and know your sons/players limits. Find a team that fits your sons work ethic. |
| 22202 |
Posted - 01/14/2011 : 09:13:57
This is my $0.02 worth.
I try to teach my kids that if they make a commitment they have to see it thru. Practices, lessons, games, fund raising, basically anything that is a team scheduled event. We have missed parties, dinners, and other events to go to team functions. We always tell our son before we pay the money for the season, "is this what you want to do, no matter what comes up, are willing to give 100% to the team?" When he responds yes, then his mom and I have to make the same commitment. Now with that said, school comes first, homework, grades, projects etc. You know well in advance if they have a band concert, school sport schedule conflict, etc. to let the coach know if there is a conflict. I tell my son that he has to work hard and EARN his position and not expect anything to be given to him. I think these kinds of lessons teach kids to be better down the road in life. And those kinds of lessons are some of the things I love about baseball. At the same time if you don't play for a coach that has the same values/ideas as yours than you should find a team that does and try out for it. |
| SSBuckeye |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 22:27:34
Maybe I'm in the minority, but all my kids come to practice. |
| 11UFAN |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 22:16:11
This is a great topic. Here is my 2cts worth. It depends on what type of practices they are missing. If it is an indoor practice, hitting in the cages or throwing bullpen it is probably not as big a deal if these players are getting individual instruction.
Field time is a whole different deal. These are the practices that are a must IMO. If you play 1st base, how are you going to know that your 2nd baseman usually overthrows when rushed on a potential double play? or when your ss makes a great play deep in the hole he usually throws it in the dirt? If you are an outfielder, you need reps tracking down balls, to know where your cut-off guy is or reps throwing out a guy at home plate.
Coaches work on pick-off moves, new signs, covering first when a ball gets hit between the pitcher and 1st base, running the bases etc..during field time.
In short, gelling with your team defensively requires you to be there. If you miss these practices, you could be hurting your team. |
| Leftypitcher |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 19:04:32
My opinion for what it is worth is this.
Travel baseball can be very expensive. Most parents gladly accept this expense, but generally expect two things for their money and their son's time.
1) For their son to get quality coaching, learn how to be part of a team (good sportsmanship), and have fun playing ball.
2) A fair and reasonable chance for their son to be part of team that wins a few tournaments along the way.
But, and this is where it's gets serious, if Johnny or Billy misses too many team practices, then proceeds to make error(s) in tournament games causing his team to get booted from the tournament(s) early, who is at fault? The coach for allowing this to occur more than once, the players parents who agreed to make practices but missed them, or the other players parents for allowing this to go on?
I am not saying that an honest error should cause a revolt on a team, but errors caused by missing to many practices is inexcusable because it affects a lot more than just the offending player, it can affect a whole teams win loss record, and more importantly team morale. |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 18:54:46
Old school,
My point was that many kids are playing other sports right now, and to me, that takes priority. I did not realize travel ball started in January. What about all those teams that don't have access to an indoor facilty? Even in a normal January, it is pretty cold by 6:oo in the evening.
I do agree that come late February, kids need to be practicing with thier team. I don't think my son missed more then three practices last season for any reason. It just seems too ealry to be concerned about missing practice. Unless you are setting team expectations, then I agree it needs to be now or sooner. |
| Triple |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 17:58:00
IMO it sends the wrong message to have a kid on the team that is excused from practices and to just come for the games. There should be consequences for not coming. There are the exceptions and should be treated as such, but I work out by myself, I'll come to the games... mentality just doesn't cut it. The team needs to be together. They need to gel and get synergy. They have to throw to the same kid and catch the ball from the same kid again and again so that both player just trust the other will be there and make the play. The players also need to see that everyone works just as hard and does the same drills they have to. When you work hard and show you can do it in a practice, it should give you the opportunity to win a spot for a game. See if you can convert it to a game situation, at least for an inning or two. Not all kids can do that. Some look good in the cage, but can't ever seem to contribute when it is a live game. If the prima donna doesn't show it sends the wrong message, just like when the kid that drags the team down doesn't show. It takes a team to win and they need to practice as a team. My kid many times is the "goto" kid and you better believe we don't miss practices. |
| oldschooldad |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 17:33:52
quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
Travel Ball starts in January? What about other sports? Our coach knew up front that we had committed to ice hockey. Baseball practice is VERY limited for him in January. But, once the weather warms up, we don't miss much.
DecaturDad,
I understand that your son plays ice hockey but does the temperature outside determine what team he will play/practice with? How long is the ice hockey season? If the coach is okay with an absence, for any reason, I am okay with a kid missing. He's the coach, you picked him because you have trust in him so he decides what is excused or not excused? My question though is what, if any, should be done for repeated unexcused absences? I believe a team should practice together... not a fan of private lessons and working out individually and then showing up for the game. If that your teams approach, so be it. I also under stand that most of these kids rely on a parent or friend or relative, but for the remainder of us with a more traditional approach what should the coach do? What should the parents do? Is it okay if the player involved is your Ace or your clean up hitter? 
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| momshell |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 16:43:50
My boys are playing on a team that is nowhere close to being an elite or even major team, so all the boys need all the practice time they can get. A while back, when my husband coached rec, if a kid missed a practice and didn't call ahead to let him know, or if it wasn't for a good reason, the kid spent the maximum time allowed on the bench. The kids knew it and we had very few problems. If the kid really wants to play, it has been our experience that he will find a way to get there even if he has to call for a ride. He feels the same about travel ball. Conflicts with other sports are going to happen, but once February rolls around, they better be there!
Allstar, I agree with you and to answer your question, school related activities like band concerts take priority, especially if it counts toward their grade. My husband might disagree, though. lol |
| silvercityjon |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 16:42:43
quote:
Originally posted by Peanutsr
Maybe I am missing something . Unless the kid is 16 and driving then he/she depends on the parent to get them to practice. If you have a kid who isn't making practices it is more than likely a parent problem.
Do you punish the kid because his parents are slackers?
I see your point Peanutsr....BUT sometimes it takes their kid sitting out to get the point across to the parents. Think of it this way do you risk making the other 10 parents mad just because one is maybe over their head with commitments. I see both sides but this is one of those topics that you will never make everyone happy. Mark it up to agree to disagree....I learned this the hard way lol |
| Peanutsr |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 16:12:39
Maybe I am missing something . Unless the kid is 16 and driving then he/she depends on the parent to get them to practice. If you have a kid who isn't making practices it is more than likely a parent problem.
Do you punish the kid because his parents are slackers? |
| AllStar |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 13:53:45
In most team sports, if you don't practice, you don't play. Travel baseball appears to be different. Sometimes it appears that parents just come whenever they want and often schoolwork is the excuse. That won't fly with their HS coach, I never understood why it did with travel. Or why parents thought it should.
If travel conflicts with another sport's natural season, the other sport should get priority. Conversely, players shouldn't get to miss baseball for Spring football.
Here is my follow up question: What about other extracurricular activities, especially at the younger ages? Are we really going to make a kid choose between band/drama/orchestra/scouts and baseball when he is 11, 12, 13? I always felt that if another player missed a baseball practice because he had a band concert, that was legit, but I may be in the minority. |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 11:49:45
We have had a few kids like that before, when we played on local teams and you are right it is always the same kid or two kids. And you aren't the only one who rants or vents on here!! I was just explaining it from our side of it, we don't play very often with teams from far away but I won't take that opportunity away from my nephew. I have noticed parents don't like players who don't practice with the team even if they only play for a weekend or two, easy to understand. |
| rippit |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 11:09:31
@excoach - I think that kid was on our fall team - lol.
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| silvercityjon |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 09:58:53
On our 10u team this past fall we ran into this very problem. I went to every parent at the beginning of the fall season and asked for their other sport practice schedules then set our baseball practice up on non conflicting days. Then after I reserved the field space a football coach changed his practice schedule and it became a conflict with ours. Our simple solution was if you missed practice then you sat 2 innings the next game. Out of 11 players and parents we only had one "mild" complaint but we survived. What gets me is that the kids understand this and have no problem with it....its the parents. Let's face it no matter how you handle this situation it is going to be hard to please all. I give up on that trying to do that lol |
| crackedbats |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 07:35:34
need to consider 14u 9th graders. Making practice during the week is next to impossible when your 14u travel team has a mid week practice. Weekends its a different story. |
| excoach12 |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 23:33:24
Better yet- How about parents who insist they shouldn't pay as much as the other parents? Have a player who committed to one team, paid a non-refundable fee and then switched to our team and now, months down the road, insists we discount our fees to compensate for the lost fee to the other team!! |
| barsred98 |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 23:21:28
Rippit, I have to agree with you to an extent.....we have been on teams that players have every excuse out there and it shows when it is game time.
We have always talked to our son about committment to the team and being at practice is part of that committment. He does alot of work on his own (home batting cage) plus weekly batting lessons and rarely misses a practice. But then again, he is not a "stud", just a decent all around baseball player who works hard to keep up with the team and reach his goals.
If his play is equal to or better than others on the team who constantly have excuses for not showing at practice and dont live out of the area I do expect that he gets more play time than they do.........he earns it!
For those "studs" that have the skill set needed to play on the top teams, I think it is perfectly exceptable for them to work from home since most are traveling quite a distance. |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 20:19:18
Travel Ball starts in January? What about other sports? Our coach knew up front that we had committed to ice hockey. Baseball practice is VERY limited for him in January. But, once the weather warms up, we don't miss much. |
| rippit |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 19:45:58
Spartan - I think we are talking about different levels of play. I asked a question several weeks ago about the fall off of available players at 13U and I think this kinda tags onto that...
A lot of teams are just plainly local - some A, some AA and some teetering on the edge of AAA. If a kid had to travel 100 miles to play on our team, first I'd want to know WHY?? lol
I do think many areas have watered down their travel ball and many of these players should still be playing rec ball. Many times I've wondered why all these teams still looking for players don't just get together and consolidate teams and kick some bootay.
Anyway, I guess I'm old school even though I'm a mom. If you are going to commit to a team, show up for practice. I think the teams you are talking about are true elite tournament teams - not the local "travel" ball team.
True stories: we've had guys miss bc they got "grounded", their "ride" had a conflict (call me, I'll pick you up), the bus was late, their sister/brother/father/mother/aunt/neighbor was sick, etc.
Same kids, all the time, different excuse. Other kids - never miss anything. Yes, - it's the parents. Can't WAIT until they try to pull this stuff in high school.
The original question had to do with playing time - yes, it will affect their playing time ESPECIALLY when others start wanting to play summer and fall 2011 with us.
I guess I'm a little nuts from being stuck inside this week - but now I feel a little better for having vented. |
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