| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| runningbases |
Posted - 08/09/2019 : 11:13:58
Question for coaches - Is it typical for a coach to text other coaches to warn them of a player / family under the guise of a "professional courtesy"? Is this typical? Are other coaches swayed by this "courtesy"?
We are only a few years into the travel world and was surprised when we heard this concerning a player. Just wondering if we are being naïve and this is type of courtesy is commonplace. |
| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| NWbaseballscouting |
Posted - 11/22/2019 : 11:32:01
It happens 24/7 and 365. You better believe it. The older a kid gets the more it comes into play. |
| baseball713 |
Posted - 08/22/2019 : 21:06:46
The statement: "Those that do quickly earn a reputation and other coaches generally know who to trust." came from BlueDevil. But he also did say "Coaches will not lie to one another when asked a question". Maybe he should have said "Coaches will generally or most of the time not lie to one another when asked a question and those that do quickly earn a reputation". |
| TaxiMom |
Posted - 08/22/2019 : 17:51:37
quote:
Originally posted by WarEagle34
I think you and TaxiMom are on the same page. I believe her response is more towards BlueDevil says 'Coaches will not lie to one another when asked a question'
Yes, that's correct.
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| WarEagle34 |
Posted - 08/22/2019 : 14:03:20
I think you and TaxiMom are on the same page. I believe her response is more towards BlueDevil says 'Coaches will not lie to one another when asked a question' |
| baseball713 |
Posted - 08/22/2019 : 12:19:30
Isn't this: "Luckily, other coaches knew this coach and questioned the lies enough to ask me directly about it." consistent with this "Those that do quickly earn a reputation and other coaches generally know who to trust."? Feels like we all are saying the same thing and are in agreement? |
| TaxiMom |
Posted - 08/21/2019 : 10:49:52
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDevilBaseball
Coaches will not lie to one another when asked a question. It's sort of like an unspoken brotherhood. You don't tell another coach he's getting a great family knowing they could show up and cause problems. That's just not going to happen very much. However, coaches don't have to call and volunteer that information either. That could unnecessarily hurt a kids chance at a new start. I don't think many coaches would actively try to blackball a kid. Those that do quickly earn a reputation and other coaches generally know who to trust.
That’s naïve. When my son was looking to change teams some years ago, his old coach didn’t want to let him go. So he bad mouthed my son to other coaches, told other coaches that he had already re-committed to him, and actively told me lies about the team he was moving to (I still have the texts) to dissuade his move. Luckily, other coaches knew this coach and questioned the lies enough to ask me directly about it.
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| BlueDevilBaseball |
Posted - 08/20/2019 : 20:34:57
Coaches will not lie to one another when asked a question. It's sort of like an unspoken brotherhood. You don't tell another coach he's getting a great family knowing they could show up and cause problems. That's just not going to happen very much. However, coaches don't have to call and volunteer that information either. That could unnecessarily hurt a kids chance at a new start. I don't think many coaches would actively try to blackball a kid. Those that do quickly earn a reputation and other coaches generally know who to trust. |
| baseball713 |
Posted - 08/20/2019 : 16:06:26
In the same way, coaches (and orgs/academies) will get a bad reputation based on how they treat the kids and parents. We have stayed away from certain organizations and coaches bec of their reputation, how they conduct themselves on and off the field, and how they have treated their kids/parents. |
| WarEagle34 |
Posted - 08/19/2019 : 07:41:19
Seeing the last few posts, also need to remember that it can actually be the coaching in some instances. Saw it this season, as a coach just trashed a kid to a perspective new coach in hopes of keeping him on his roster. In turn, the same coach went out of his way to trash everything about that new team to the player and his family, again, just to keep him on his roster. Turns out the new coach and parents compared notes from conversations with the old coach and were able to sort things out. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 08/16/2019 : 19:42:01
My perception has generally been for 13/14 and U, a problem parent can get your kid black balled across the board. Travel ball is a TINY world. 15 and up, a problem kid can get himself black balled with a crappy attitude and parents have, become irrelevant because by now if the parent hasn't learned to shut up, the kid sadly hasn't probably made a team. There is always the exception in both cases for the true superstar, but mostly those kids have shut their own difficult parents up out of necessity. |
| KentMurphy |
Posted - 08/14/2019 : 15:31:01
99.9% of the time when a kid is 'blacklisted', it's due to the parent(s), especially 13-14U and below. Over-bearing, unrealistic, controlling, argumentative, opinionated parents can all be ruin a kids chances. Sure, there will always be a place for the player, and maybe some coach will think, "I can handle the parents", but it often backfires. And in some big-name academies it's the worse! Pacification is the name of the game. Parent lies/complains enough, and they get their way. And everyone knows it, and just grins and bears it. Not saying any of this applies to the original poster, but again, no one knows the full story. Maybe the dad was in the coaches ear after EVERY practice and EVERY game about his son's playing time, positioning, where he was batting in the order, or coach's in-game (or practice) decisions...
So, to you, runningbases, wouldn't you prefer your coach to do his due diligence when adding new players/families to your team? You have a kid that could win you a game or two on his talents alone, yet the parent(s) are a cancer in the stands. Always negative. Always opinionated (against other players, the coaches, etc). Maybe as talented as the kid is, he can be a punk in the dugout, or if he doesn't get his way literally pouts on the field... Wouldn't you wish YOUR coach would have been given a 'heads up' about this family/player? Maybe coach would have taken him anyway-- or maybe coach would think, 'a win or two more isn't worth the chemistry of the team I currently have'. It can go both ways. |
| Gatravelbaseball |
Posted - 08/14/2019 : 09:54:02
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
As for the scenario above regarding sleeping in closets at work, that would actually be illegal to say. If you want to give a glowing recommendation on a former employee you can. If you don't, then all you are allowed by law to say is that they worked there.
It's very common for companies to adopt a policy of only confirming employment for former employees, just to avoid the possibility of any potential issues. But there is no law that prohibits an employer from sharing this kind of information, as long as it's factually true and documented. |
| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 08/14/2019 : 09:01:17
I've seen it happen with a kid where it was unfortunate. The kid comes from a beyond broken home, got into some trouble when he was 12/13 due to lack of structure and being a kid. A well known coach black listed him and spread the word far and wide. The fact that the kid himself had been trying to change his circumstances, trying to do better in school, trying to steer clear of "THAT" crowd didn't matter. Coach labeled him as trouble. Trouble in baseball and trouble as a person. He even went so far as to tell the parents of the girl he was seeing that the kid was trouble. How can a kid overcome their home life? Aren't coaches supposed to help, not just beat a kid down?
As for the scenario above regarding sleeping in closets at work, that would actually be illegal to say. If you want to give a glowing recommendation on a former employee you can. If you don't, then all you are allowed by law to say is that they worked there.
With regard to tryout times....you have to be politically savvy, that's the bottom line. Can't burn any bridges, and that is a very tough place to navigate. At the end of the day you have to remember that there are over 100 travel teams in your kids age group in the area, and if a coach hears your kid is a problem he has hundreds, if not thousands, of other kids to choose from where he can get his money. It doesn't make business sense to bring on the questionable kid. These kids are treated as commodities for much of youth baseball. There are a very VERY small amount of coaches that truly care about your kid more than what they can do for them on the field. I have seen them out there, the true coaches that keep up with players and their families that they coaches 3 years ago, but for the most part your kid is just a paycheck, and a way to get better kids interested in their team, to these people.
It's not personal, it's business. Parents REALLY need to remember that youth baseball is a business, it is NOT JUST FOR FUN! |
| RoamingCF |
Posted - 08/13/2019 : 20:23:52
quote:
Originally posted by baseball713
You can tell a lot about whether a coach is trustworthy or not when you watch him in action and how he treats his kids, his parents, the umpires, the opposing team, and how they respond to adversity on and off the field.
So true. I simply want my boys around good men. We’ve had situations where we committed based on a perceived choice of roster, only to find out 2 returning kids got a “late” new offer, decide to leave, and now coach is in a position of mistakenly misleading. Roster is worse off, but we committed. Stinks, eh?
So it goes back to the above - find good men, and just enjoy watching your son play the game. |
| bama21 |
Posted - 08/13/2019 : 07:27:37
As with all situations in life, there are 2 sides to every story and the TRUTH is always in the middle. |
| baseball713 |
Posted - 08/12/2019 : 21:46:06
As far as our coach was concerned, he only takes feedback from coaches he knows and trusts seriously. You can tell a lot about whether a coach is trustworthy or not when you watch him in action and how he treats his kids, his parents, the umpires, the opposing team, and how they respond to adversity on and off the field. If he gets feedback from a coach he doesn't know or does not trust, he makes sure to confirm. If he can't confirm from coaches he trusts, he gives the player and his family the benefit of doubt.
As far as the specific example above, there may be more to the story between what happened with the coach and the player's family. Again, as far as our coach was concerned, he also wants to know the details of why the previous coach is giving a negative feedback. He will then develop his own judgement. If this is the extent of the previous coach's complaint (that the player did not inform him), he will probably get an explanation from the player's family and it won't be a showstopper. |
| Renegade44 |
Posted - 08/12/2019 : 17:53:23
What a cesspool of less than honest operators. May I have another please. Keep going back for more.
There are honest people in this business, few and far between but they can be found and they are not usually at fancy name elite national all world mega academies. I suggest you find them and out the clowns so future young players can stay away from the clowns. |
| wareagle |
Posted - 08/12/2019 : 13:46:58
In the above scenario, I can understand the coach being a little butt hurt. Still gives him no right to "blacklist" a kid. The kid is under no obligation to return, and it is just as much the responsibility of the coach to find out the status of his players. Now if the told the coach they were returning and backed out at the last minute, that is different.
This is the time of year that kids "tryout" new teams, and teams "tryout" new kids. It works both ways, but alot of coaches don't see it that way. |
| Gapper |
Posted - 08/12/2019 : 13:38:51
It is the job of the coach to make the calls or already have the conversation as to whether or not they want the player back. If they don't ask them to come back, the player/family can assume that they are not and can/should go look other places.
I have seen too many people string along players that assumed they had a roster spot to only be replaced. |
| Gatravelbaseball |
Posted - 08/12/2019 : 12:56:47
When the company you just applied to work for calls your previous employer and is told that you often came in late and were caught napping in the janitor's closet on multiple occasions, do you expect them to just ignore that and hire you anyway?
Maybe -- like if they happen to know that your former boss is a big fat jerk that treats employees poorly and has ridiculous turnover because of it. But otherwise, why would they take such a risk and hire you?
Yes, there are coaches out there who would absolutely throw a kid and/or his parents under the bus without any justification, just to spite them for some personal reason. But eventually word gets out about these guys, so most other coaches know to take what they say with a grain of salt.
But for every one of those coaches, there are several parents out there who can't or won't acknowledge that they're actually the problem -- NOT last year's coach. They think their kid is a really great player with a really great attitude, when in reality he's so-so and borderline uncoachable. When they go to look for their kid's 5th team in as many years, word may be out about them and the opportunities may start to dry up.
The truth is that there are so many coaches/teams and so many players out there, that both sides can almost always find a way to stay at it -- even if it's only for one more year!
I'm not trying to suggest anything specifically about the case you're referring to, I'm just pointing out the kind of harsh reality of how this works.
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| bballman |
Posted - 08/12/2019 : 12:10:12
quote:
Originally posted by runningbases
Wow. I'm really surprised this does really happen. So my next question is, why would the coaches word be what's taken for fact by other coaches? Meaning, the coach is blasting the kid and parents for their own perceived drama or simply because the coach doesn't like said family, and isn't even drama related.
The kid in question didn't return and didn't do tryouts with said team. Didn't contact the coach to tell them they weren't coming back, there was zero interaction with coach. However, the coach feels slighted and has sent the word out the family/kid should be steered away from. How exactly is this fair to the kid? And how can the parents tackle this head-on without creating drama (that they were avoiding), even though they are falsely accused of it anyway (because coach didn't get his way)
I'm really disheartened that grown men behave this way. Revengeful and spiteful and the kids suffer. The coaches can have final say if they don't like a family/kid and bury said kid, but if the family feels the same about the coach, they are to be avoided by others and should keep their mouth shut. If a family opens their mouth about a coach lying, treating kids unfairly, etc, they are blacklisted.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to protect your kids chance at other teams, as a parent you are supposed to kiss up and allow coaches to behave in a manner that would otherwise never be tolerated, just to avoid the coach bashing and ruining your kids chance at other teams?
The above highlighted line is the problem. If a kid/family is going to leave a team, they should be courteous enough to let the coach know. Coaches recruit for the upcoming season based on who is staying and who is leaving. If the coach didn't know the kid wasn't coming back, he may not have recruited for his position and now he's stuck with a hole in his defense and/or offense. |
| baseball713 |
Posted - 08/10/2019 : 22:14:55
Yes, absolutely, typically for coaches who knows each other well. Whether they are swayed or not depends on the coach. Our coach values team chemistry, kids attitude, and minimal to no parents drama. If he gets any whiff of this from feedback from other coaches that he trusts, he will not risk getting the kid. No amount of tournament wins is worth a year of drama and headache. |
| Hurricane22 |
Posted - 08/09/2019 : 15:27:54
From what I've seen, yes. There are definitely players/parents that have created a rep for themselves, good and bad. As far as being swayed...depends on the coach. Some think they can change or handle the situation, some don't want to deal it at all. Seen both.
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| KentMurphy |
Posted - 08/09/2019 : 14:47:03
Extremely common. Especially if the coaches have a decent relationship with one another. |
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